[Xmca-l] Re: "conscious awareness enters through the gate" (a Participation Question)

Andy Blunden andyb@marxists.org
Fri Aug 14 22:41:41 PDT 2020


The link works for me too. I have attached the article.

andy

------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
Hegel for Social Movements <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXvw9mI5yg$ >
Home Page <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXt5_736cg$ >
On 15/08/2020 1:57 pm, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
> Hello again,
>
> I searched the link online that is misisng at LCHC to see 
> if I might find it elsewhere and see that Andy referenced 
> this in an essay on his publication: 
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/works/trobriand-reasoning.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXuYWjTjTg$  
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/works/trobriand-reasoning.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XDLSuZlualtCYppYXZBlvBAPo1DPvopbKbWDYmReFxLvdqiQl-MmJREYoUoDtzVGG_ScyA$>
>
> I finally was able to get the actual Russian word, which I 
> had requested. I am presuming that the word/s we are using 
> for "conscious awareness" is "osoznanie" or "осознание"
>
> Going to google translate (I'm very sorry I speak no 
> Russian) and made this little screenshot for other related 
> words to osoznanie:
>
>
> Even google translate doesn't translate this to "conscious 
> awareness"
>
> But I like that there is a lesser connection to the word 
> "perception" as well as "knowing." This (to me) means that 
> Vygotsky was on the trail to a model similar to the Vedic 
> one. And this has been a translation snafu. "Realization" 
> is also more potent than "conscious awareness."
>
> This is why it's important to understand the meaning of 
> the words before moving forward.
>
> Watery water doesn't really say that much if I don't know 
> what water is, or worse which watery water you mean.
>
> I would love to read the paper on the Trobriands. Though 
> I'm not sure that Hutchins believes, as Andy states,
>
>     "to be of the view that to understand a mental process
>     is to be able to model it with a computer program. The
>     mind is a cluster of nested subroutines which turn
>     atomistic perceptions into compound thoughts via
>     schemata somehow residing the brain."
>
>
> That doesn't sound right to me. I don't think Andy that 
> you understand Hutchins properly. This metaphor of the 
> computer as brain flies against the Hutchins I know and 
> love from Cognition in the Wild. Hutchins certainly 
> doesn't believe that thinking happens in the skull.
>
> Though It is possible I suppose that given this was an 
> early paper of Hutchins he may have thought this, but I 
> don't think so. it really doesn't ring true to what I know 
> about his work.
>
> Hutchins used computers a lot for modeling, or perhaps 
> "simulations" is a better way to say it. It may be that he 
> was using computers to model syllogisms, but I'm not sure 
> about concepts per se, certainly not that the computer was 
> a stand-in for mind.
>
> I also know Hutchins very vocally disputes mental 
> representation, when it was trendy to think everything in 
> the mind is a representation. I used to know the reasons 
> why it was not a useful model.
>
> Alas, not anymore, I reach and the answer isn't there!!
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Annalisa
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu 
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of mike cole 
> <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2020 6:20 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity 
> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "conscious awareness enters 
> through the gate" (a Participation Question)
>
> *  [EXTERNAL]*
>
> **
> Andy et al...
>
> This link http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Histarch/fe79v1n2.PDF is to 
> an early, short,  article by Ed Hutchins that may
> be relevant to the discussion. There is a book laying out 
> the full case.
>
> mike
>
>
> On Fri, Aug 14, 2020 at 8:34 AM Andy Blunden 
> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
>     No David, as I said, the term "scientific concept" as
>     it is understood nowadays, tends to mislead. The
>     distinction for Vygotsky is entirely, as you say,
>     /developmental/, and it is not a categorisation either
>     (as in putting things into boxes), and nothing to do
>     with "sophistication." "Scientific concept" refers to
>     the path of development that begins with an abstract
>     (decontextualised) concept acquired through
>     instruction in some more or less formal institution.
>     "Spontaneous concept" refers to the path of
>     development which begins with everyday experience,
>     closely connected with immediate sensori-motor
>     interaction and perception, i.e., it begins from the
>     concrete, whereas the "scientific" is beginning from
>     the abstract.
>
>     Any "actual" concept is the intersection or merging of
>     both the scientific and spontaneous path. For example
>     (1) everyday life is full of ideas which have their
>     source in institutions, but have made their way out of
>     the institutional context into everyday life. On the
>     other hand, for example (2) any scientific concept
>     worth its salt has made its way out of the classroom
>     and become connected with practice, like the
>     book-learning of the medical graduate who's spent 6
>     months in A&E.
>
>     I admit, this is not clear from Vygotsky's prose. But
>     here's the thing: when you're reading a great thinker
>     and what they're saying seems silly, trying reading it
>     more generously, because there's probably a reason
>     this writer has gained the reputation of being a great
>     thinker.
>
>     Andy
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>     *Andy Blunden*
>     Hegel for Social Movements
>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!XxSEPVIR0yRJgFaNSBm_i4WM3CddjlgSG_ngNcugdSCaXGC-tM-WRY9GIob6WVqti5Nn5Q$>
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>
>     On 15/08/2020 1:14 am, David H Kirshner wrote:
>>
>>     Thanks for your accessible example, Michael.
>>
>>     Vygotsky’s scientific / spontaneous distinction
>>     between types of concepts has always struck me as
>>     such an unfortunate solution to the problem of
>>     differential sophistication in modes of reasoning.
>>     I’m sure this problem must have deep roots in
>>     classical and contemporary philosophy, even as it is
>>     reflected in cognitive psychology’s Dual Process
>>     Theory that at its “theoretical core amounts to a
>>     dichotomous view of two types of processes…: type
>>     1—intuitive, fast, automatic, nonconscious,
>>     effortless, contextualized, error-prone, and type
>>     2—reflective, slow, deliberate, cogitative,
>>     effortful, decontextualized, normatively correct”
>>     (Varga & Hamburger, 2014). What externalizing this
>>     distinction as different kinds of cognitive products
>>     (this or that kind of concept) seems to do is
>>     distract/detract from the sociogenetic character of
>>     development. Surely, a sociogenetic approach seeks to
>>     interpret these different forms of reasoning as
>>     differential discursive practices, embedded in
>>     different cultural contexts (Scribner, Cole, etc.).
>>     But talking about different kinds of concepts seems
>>     like the wrong departure point for that journey.
>>
>>     David
>>
>>     *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf
>>     Of *Glassman, Michael
>>     *Sent:* Friday, August 14, 2020 7:03 AM
>>     *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>     <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "conscious awareness enters
>>     through the gate" (a Participation Question)
>>
>>     Hi Andy, Henry, Anna Lisa,
>>
>>     Let me start by saying that this is completely
>>     restricted to the way conscious awareness is used in
>>     Thinking and Speech. If it is use differently in
>>     other places this perspective may be wrong. To my
>>     mind (with the proviso that my mind if often wrong)
>>     Vygotsky is using the idea of conscious awareness for
>>     a specific purpose. To differentiate the role of
>>     spontaneous concepts with non-spontaneous concepts.
>>     Spontaneous concepts are based initially in affective
>>     memory and they give energy and motivation to many of
>>     our activities. However we are not consciously aware
>>     of them. To go back to chess, I am at the pool and my
>>     friend comes up to me and says “Chess?” I say yes. I
>>     have no conscious awareness of the concept of chess
>>     in my life, why I say yes so easily why it may be a
>>     way to make a social connection between me and my
>>     friend. It is residue of my affective memory (I don’t
>>     know how much Vygotsky was using Ribot when making
>>     this argument). We are playing chess and I remember
>>     that my brother showed me the
>>     non-spontaneous/scientific concept of the bishop’s
>>     gambit. As this point in my life I have to think
>>     about it and whether I want to use it. I must summon
>>     the intellectual functions of memory and attention as
>>     I think about the use of the bishop’s gambit. This
>>     then is conscious awareness of the scientific
>>     concept. I used the bishop’s gambit and win the game
>>     and I applaud myself. I got home and tell my brother,
>>     the bishop’s gambit was great, thanks. I am mediating
>>     the scientific concept of the bishop’s gambit with my
>>     everyday concept of playing chess. Voila, development!!!!
>>
>>     I don’t know if Vygotsky uses conscious awareness
>>     differently elsewhere.
>>
>>     Michael
>>
>>     *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> *On Behalf
>>     Of *Andy Blunden
>>     *Sent:* Thursday, August 13, 2020 11:51 PM
>>     *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>     <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>     *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: "conscious awareness enters
>>     through the gate" (a Participation Question)
>>
>>     Henry, my aim was just to introduce Annalisa and
>>     whoever to the scientific way that the terms
>>     "conscious awareness" and "consciousness" are used in
>>     CHAT. I say "scientific" in the sense that in CHAT we
>>     have a system of concepts and associated word
>>     meanings which have, if you like, conventional
>>     meanings. There is nothing wrong with "automatic and
>>     controlled processing" and "ballistic processing" but
>>     so far as I am aware these terms were not in
>>     Vygotsky's vocabulary. I could be wrong of course and
>>     I am sure I will be rapidly corrected if this is the
>>     case.
>>
>>     Andy
>>
>>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>     *Andy Blunden*
>>     Hegel for Social Movements
>>     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!Smhly0SjdcgGREcg-6xH-8n9H3YEj1J9lzNgh3sh3V04jFUm38R6Cc-p_IYblRn4Ixz7_Q*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495791566&sdata=4GFqGD8GOIYvWK1i0mu1nnIQq8*2BDA*2BVn4f84CtjhizI*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pmr4R1WmQ$>
>>     Home Page
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>>
>>
>>     On 14/08/2020 1:36 pm, HENRY SHONERD wrote:
>>
>>         Andy,
>>
>>         I think of what you described as automatic and
>>         controlled processing. Automatic processing (also
>>         called ballistic) requires little or no
>>         attentional resources. Controlled processes, on
>>         the other hand, take up a lot of attention. When
>>         you’re learning something, it can easily overload
>>         attentional capacity. One aspect of learning or
>>         scaffolding the learning of another is to know
>>         the right combination of controlled and automatic
>>         processing. I think this relates to Vygotsky’s
>>         Zoped. You quoted Hegel a while back about
>>         mathematical thinking that captures this
>>         distinction very well.
>>
>>         Henry
>>
>>             On Aug 13, 2020, at 7:37 PM, Andy Blunden
>>             <andyb@marxists.org
>>             <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>>             Annalisa, for Marxists, "consciousness" is a
>>             very broad term covering what mediates
>>             between physiology and behaviour, the
>>             totality of mental processes in an individual
>>             organism, whether sleeping or awake.
>>
>>             "Conscious awareness" on the other hand
>>             refers to knowing and attending to what you
>>             are doing at the time. A couple of classic
>>             examples will illustrate. When you're walking
>>             down the street you do not have conscious
>>             awareness of how yor foot is laying itself
>>             flat on the footpath, how your body is
>>             overbalancing slightly forwards and your
>>             other leg swinging slightly outward and
>>             bending as you bring it forward, etc. ... but
>>             if for example you step over a kerb and
>>             having underestimated the depth of the step
>>             and momentarily losing you balance, your
>>             walking suddenly springs back into conscious
>>             awareness and you look down at the ground,
>>             and take conscious control of your balance, etc.
>>             On the other hand, consider when a child is
>>             first learning to tie their own shoelaces;
>>             let's suppose they have been taught the
>>             rabbit ears method. The child says to herself
>>             "make the rabbit ears ... this one ...  that
>>             one ... cross over ... put through the hole
>>             ...  grab it .,. and PULL IT TIGHT! Yeh!"
>>             That is, she tied her laces with conscious
>>             awareness, according to how she was
>>             instructed, paying attention to every
>>             operation, using internal speech (more or
>>             less). But a couple of months later she now
>>             thinks about getting out the door in time to
>>             meet her friends while she is tying her laces
>>             and isn't even looking at what she's doing.
>>             She has achieved mastery.
>>
>>             OK?
>>
>>             Andy
>>
>>             ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>             *Andy Blunden*
>>             Hegel for Social Movements
>>             <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__https*3A*2Fbrill.com*2Fview*2Ftitle*2F54574__*3B!!Mih3wA!XZQXs1xzTdD7gK6xsdMBk-Ga55iwz6RrA67DSGtQSP4CCGUWy0fBCOAYvjslviQcZ_PAJg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495801564&sdata=zZuS2PvCKdb33Rrxx2FJPXi1FieFBI81P2toX2ZIlQM*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pnpxdB3og$>
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>>
>>             On 14/08/2020 4:13 am, Annalisa Aguilar wrote:
>>
>>                 Hello conscious and venerable others,
>>
>>                 Mike points out a very important point
>>                 that conscious awareness cannot be a
>>                 product of scientific concepts.
>>                 "Conscious awareness" is a gummy term.
>>
>>                 I am confused about the citation about
>>                 chess. Is that Spinoza or Vygotsky?
>>
>>                 It's V not S, right? What was the Spinoza
>>                 text that caught Vygotsky's attention?
>>                 David would you mind to cite it?
>>
>>                 I am also curious what the Russian words
>>                 used to create the English translation of
>>                 "conscious awareness"? Can someone
>>                 illuminate that for my awareness?
>>
>>                 "Conscious awareness"  is sort of like
>>                 saying "wet water,"
>>
>>                 No, actually? it is like saying "watery
>>                 water."
>>
>>                 If we can say "conscious awareness" does
>>                 that mean we say "unconscious awareness"?
>>
>>                 What does that look like?
>>
>>                 Can we say "conscious unawareness"?
>>
>>                 I don't think so.
>>
>>                 Awareness is awareness.
>>
>>                 I can take a drop out of the sea, but I
>>                 can't call it the sea, though if I put it
>>                 back it's not the sea + drop.
>>
>>                 It's just the sea, see?
>>
>>                 However, you can't parse a drop of awareness.
>>
>>                 If it were possible to take one awareness
>>                 with another awareness, it's still
>>                 awareness. If I take part of awareness
>>                 from another awareness it's still awareness.
>>
>>                 Awareness is not really something that
>>                 can be divided into parts or added to
>>                 into something "larger."
>>
>>                 The trouble with the word "consiousness,"
>>                 is that it gets tangled with states of
>>                 brain activity, being awake vs. asleep
>>                 vs. deep sleep vs. catatonic vs.
>>                 comatose, unconscious, etc.
>>
>>                 "Consciousness" is a word like "space."
>>                 We can divide space, but it is really an
>>                 illusion. Everything is in space, so the
>>                 small room vs the big room is just an
>>                 illusion in terms of conceptual size.
>>                 It's more of a perceptual relationship
>>                 than something quantitative (say, if
>>                 looking from the standpoint of space,
>>                 space is just space). The walls of the
>>                 rooms are in space too.
>>
>>                 This is why awareness/consciousness
>>                 cannot be mixed up with thinking processes.
>>
>>                 Awareness is always present, but I sense
>>                 the content of what is discussed here
>>                 pertains to knowledge not awareness.
>>
>>                 That's why I'm suspicious about the
>>                 translation. Is this mistake in the
>>                 translation? or did Vygotsky make this
>>                 mistake?
>>
>>                 Of course it seems a silly semantic
>>                 argument, but the meaning of the words do
>>                 substantially alter how we think about
>>                 the concepts they convey, especially if
>>                 we do not precisely understand the
>>                 intention the the words were used by the
>>                 speaker/writer.
>>
>>                 There is a distinct (and special)
>>                 relationship between perception and
>>                 knowledge. We can't perceive anything
>>                 without awareness. We also can't know
>>                 anything without awareness. I maintain
>>                 that this is what Spinoza references as
>>                 "substance." He is right about that. It's
>>                 that necessary white elephant.
>>
>>                 To master something is to know it. To
>>                 know it isn't always to master it. We
>>                 could say Vygotsky attempts to isolate
>>                 what is different about mastery compared
>>                 to when mastery isn't evident.
>>
>>                 If we could as-if parse awareness from
>>                 cognition and set awareness aside, we
>>                 could then look at the relationship
>>                 between knowledge and cognition, in that
>>                 knowledge can be measured in the
>>                 individual based upon how well the
>>                 individual's knowledge effectively maps
>>                 to the world (or reality), while
>>                 cognition on the other hand is the
>>                 manifest biological interaction to build
>>                 those maps. We know cognition is
>>                 distributed, and that it includes
>>                 society, tools, etc. It's not just
>>                 happening in the chamber of the brain,
>>                 that crafty and mysterious black, I mean
>>                 grey box.
>>
>>                 Like many philosophers and psychologists,
>>                 I take it Vygotsky is discussing the ways
>>                 in which perceptions and awareness of
>>                 perceptions are organized subjectively.
>>
>>                 If that "structure" is organized in such
>>                 a way that it maps accurately to the
>>                 environment, then one can assert there is
>>                 objective knowledge of the environment,
>>                 and the better this map "functions," the
>>                 more mastery is evident.
>>
>>                 When it is not mapping that effectively,
>>                 I think we might call that in a positive
>>                 sense "imagination" or in a negative
>>                 sense, "delusion."
>>
>>                 Humans do have a tendency for delusion as
>>                 can be witnessed today. It's a very
>>                 interesting experiment to see the battle
>>                 of "everyday concepts" and "scientific
>>                 concepts" in the news about the pandemic.
>>
>>                 In this sense, on the matter of
>>                 subjective organization of thinking,
>>                 "primitive" people can have "higher"
>>                 conceptual developments, as Levi-Strauss
>>                 has shown us long ago. We might not
>>                 recognize the value of that mastery
>>                 because we might not share those
>>                 thought-organizations of the natural
>>                 environment that that culture possesses.
>>                 Why would we share them?
>>
>>                 It's a little like witnessing two
>>                 foreigners speaking to one another and
>>                 basing their intelligence on the way the
>>                 phonetic profile of the language appeals
>>                 or repels our aesthetic sensibilities for
>>                 sound.
>>
>>                 Vygotsky was a little guilty of this kind
>>                 of "modern" chauvanism. (who isn't?)
>>
>>                 I might ask, how much of this might have
>>                 been self-censorship (or circumspection)
>>                 within a Soviet society? To possibly
>>                 barter his ideas better? Is there any
>>                 evidence of Vygotsky doing that? (I'm
>>                 inclined to say no, but would like to
>>                 hear from others mor familier with his
>>                 texts and relationships with others)
>>                 Might you help me understand that part. I
>>                 suppose it depends on how aware he was of
>>                 this chauvanism?
>>
>>                 Was there for example anything political
>>                 about Vygotsky's relationship with
>>                 Krupskaya? Was there anything political
>>                 about the anthropology study with Luria?
>>
>>                 Is it fair to say that Soviet thinking at
>>                 the time was to ask "How to create a
>>                 better human?" But for Vygotsky (and
>>                 other learning scientists) it was "How to
>>                 *scientifically* create a better human?"
>>                 using what we know about mind and how it
>>                 develops?
>>
>>                 Is it me or can there be something
>>                 Frankenstein-ish about the question,
>>                 frankly (pun ha ha), if not arrogant. Who
>>                 decides what is "better"?
>>
>>                 If "scientific" is referencing an
>>                 empirical method of analysis, based upon
>>                 trial and error, OK, but does the
>>                 individual have to know that it is
>>                 scientific in order for it to be scientific?
>>
>>                 I guess this is where the
>>                 functional/structural argument loops about.
>>
>>                 Why couldn't the reality of learning be
>>                 both functional and structural.
>>
>>                 My take is that what is in common about
>>                 functions and structures are their patterns.
>>
>>                 A pattern is the differential between the
>>                 function and the structure.
>>
>>                 Consider the music score (structure) and
>>                 the musician playing the music (function).
>>
>>                 The pattern is what is present in both.
>>                 An added benefit is that its translation
>>                 can evolve in time into other patterns
>>                 (think Jazz).
>>
>>                 I remember Vera saying that the phrase
>>                 "scientific concept" is a little
>>                 problematic. I know she didn't like
>>                 "everyday concepts" either. My memory is
>>                 not recalling what she thought was more
>>                 appropriate at the moment.
>>
>>                 I hope it isn't heretical to suggest that
>>                 the pattern might a better unit for
>>                 analysis than activity. (Gee is that my
>>                 hair that has been singed??)
>>
>>                 When considering conceptual development
>>                 the pattern is effective because the it
>>                 can translate between subjective
>>                 experience and objective experience
>>                 (biological, social, cultural, etc).
>>
>>                 On another note: Has anyone considered
>>                 Vygotsky through a feminist lens?
>>
>>                 Also: Is it possible that there were so
>>                 many women who he cited because women
>>                 were more likely to be school teachers,
>>                 as is the case today?
>>
>>                 I am quite enjoying this thread. Thank you.
>>
>>                 Kind regards,
>>
>>                 Annalisa
>>
>>                 ------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>>                 *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>                 <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu><xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                 <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>on
>>                 behalf of mike cole<mcole@ucsd.edu>
>>                 <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
>>                 *Sent:*Tuesday, August 11, 2020 3:23 PM
>>                 *To:*eXtended Mind, Culture,
>>                 Activity<xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                 <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>                 *Subject:*[Xmca-l] Re: "conscious
>>                 awareness enters through the gate" (a
>>                 Participation Question)
>>
>>                 *  [EXTERNAL]*
>>
>>                 Hi Anthony
>>
>>                 I understand that to mean that humans who
>>                 have not achieved scientific/real
>>                 concepts do not have conscious awareness.
>>
>>                 What am I missing?
>>
>>                 Mike
>>
>>                 On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 1:06 PM Anthony
>>                 Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com
>>                 <mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>                     Good afternoon,
>>
>>                     This is a question -- and an invitation:
>>
>>                     First the question:*What do you
>>                     understand the passage below (at the
>>                     bottom of this email) to mean?*
>>
>>                     Second, the invitation:*How about
>>                     sharing your thoughts in short video
>>                     form?*It's quite enjoyable (ask Andy;
>>                     ask David; etc) -- and it's also
>>                     helpful, not only to me but to anyone
>>                     watching or listening. (Here is the
>>                     question again, in video
>>                     form:https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/l41nsz__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXv6OXcywg$ 
>>                     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Ftiny.cc*2Fl41nsz__*3B!!Mih3wA!RbTsEBrr1M-JQ2E0Cza-8aoA440vsBAtR7DQicuejOZvYN1AOyytgVid7plmKnYKHKx2jw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495821553&sdata=yirIxCRq8u6hzDSQ7GoIAIe*2F2Xc6xfbvcsx5Qg3kYBE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7plv6TRGYg$>)
>>
>>                     I believe that many people --
>>                     including many teachers -- would
>>                     benefit from answers to this
>>                     question, preferably multiple
>>                     answers. With permission, I will
>>                     nicely edit and add your response to
>>                     this growing list of
>>                     asked-and-answered questions:
>>                     https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/451nsz__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXtm73abVw$ 
>>                     <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Ftiny.cc*2F451nsz__*3B!!Mih3wA!RbTsEBrr1M-JQ2E0Cza-8aoA440vsBAtR7DQicuejOZvYN1AOyytgVid7plmKnayu3KfOQ*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495821553&sdata=IEoiZRRQmzWfPQq*2F*2B02*2BR9wDfmmUBbs*2BbU3i3VDP4xE*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pn3gn5F9w$>>                     Thanks for considering it, and note
>>                     that we don't care about
>>                     perfectionism here; it's mostly for fun.
>>
>>                     *Here is the passage in question*,
>>                     from/Thinking and Speech/, Ch. 6, pp.
>>                     190-1:
>>
>>                         "To perceive something in a
>>                         different way means to acquire
>>                         new potentials for acting with
>>                         respect to it. At the chess
>>                         board, to see differently is to
>>                         play differently. By generalizing
>>                         the process of activity itself, I
>>                         acquire the potential for new
>>                         relationships with it. To speak
>>                         crudely, it is as if this process
>>                         has been isolated from the
>>                         general activity of
>>                         consciousness. I am conscious of
>>                         the fact that I remember. I make
>>                         my own remembering the object of
>>                         consciousness. An isolation
>>                         arises here. In a certain sense,
>>                         any generalization or abstraction
>>                         isolates its object. This is why
>>                         conscious awareness – understood
>>                         as generalization – leads
>>                         directly to mastery.
>>
>>                         /Thus, the foundation of
>>                         conscious awareness is the
>>                         generalization or abstraction of
>>                         the mental processes, which leads
>>                         to their mastery/. Instruction
>>                         has a decisive role in this
>>                         process. Scientific concepts have
>>                         a unique relationship to the
>>                         object. This relationship is
>>                         mediated through other concepts
>>                         that themselves have an internal
>>                         hierarchical system of
>>                         interrelationships. It is
>>                         apparently in this domain of the
>>                         scientific concept that conscious
>>                         awareness of concepts or the
>>                         generalization and mastery of
>>                         concepts emerges for the first
>>                         time. And once a new structure of
>>                         generalization has arisen in one
>>                         sphere of thought, it can – like
>>                         any structure – be transferred
>>                         without training to all remaining
>>                         domains of concepts and thought.
>>                         Thus,/conscious awareness enters
>>                         through the gate opened up by the
>>                         scientific concept/."
>>
>>                     What do you understand this passage
>>                     to mean?
>>
>>                     Thanks 😎
>>
>>                     Anthony Barra
>>
>>                     P.S. My first encounter with
>>                     /Thinking and Speech/ was very
>>                     difficult, even with the help of
>>                     talented classmates and a smart
>>                     professor. Thankfully, three online
>>                     videos from Nikolai Veresov,
>>                     presented not as a definitive reading
>>                     but as a general map of the book's
>>                     terrain, were really so helpful and
>>                     encouraging for me. If any videos I'm
>>                     posting turn out to be similarly
>>                     useful (as a number of people have
>>                     told me), that's great. So thank you
>>                     again to anyone interested in
>>                     participating.
>>
>>                 --
>>
>>
>>                   IImage removed by sender. Angelus Novus
>>                   <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fen.wikipedia.org*2Fwiki*2FAngelus_Novus__*3B!!Mih3wA!TggWICG1J2w02_x0SWKzYW-4ftmVOZbkZFfs4G9fjlQAO_5Rcb22DdO_08zpANlVawtVtw*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495831550&sdata=KDKTQbym0naigAqOU3eoQkRloj7mNKJAqyXgUGiHaVc*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pnobwzOpg$>The
>>                   Angel's View of History
>>
>>
>>                   It is only in a social context that
>>                   subjectivism and objectivism,
>>                   spiritualism and materialism, activity
>>                   and passivity cease to be antinomies,
>>                   and thus cease to exist as such
>>                   antinomies. The resolution of the
>>                   theoretical contradictions is possible
>>                   only through practical means, only
>>                   through the practical energy of humans.
>>                   (Marx, 1844).
>>
>>                 Cultural Praxis
>>                 Website:https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXtEPch_mA$ 
>>                 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fculturalpraxis.net__*3B!!Mih3wA!TggWICG1J2w02_x0SWKzYW-4ftmVOZbkZFfs4G9fjlQAO_5Rcb22DdO_08zpANlZapN6Hg*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495841547&sdata=gdOw2EWPDogwFYybBjXLALyqMtFM*2BTCY*2FBEYrJGeiTk*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pn5qUC1Gw$>
>>
>>                 Re-generating CHAT
>>                 Website:re-generatingchat.com
>>                 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Fre-generatingchat.com__*3B!!Mih3wA!TggWICG1J2w02_x0SWKzYW-4ftmVOZbkZFfs4G9fjlQAO_5Rcb22DdO_08zpANnwRjh-9A*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495841547&sdata=1s3JBDF7EFKYfDKbFQJknMsFu5GUE8*2BbJPxk*2BEEg65o*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pn0klwccw$>
>>
>>                 Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu
>>                 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchc.ucsd.edu*2F__*3B!!KGKeukY!mfefVhx1dCFAyGtgu1Cikifds7GDsRyD04iD8MeQEj4zaGS8Hd_9zHLWYpcuG-RKwI8IdzrY*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495851541&sdata=Xmk7yBHoD2zwvHvc6SZCZQUZTASL*2BitnQGNUGJSnLCQ*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSU!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7plUBEohFg$>.
>>
>>                 Narrative history of LCHC:
>>                 lchcautobio.ucsd.edu
>>                 <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://nam04.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https*3A*2F*2Furldefense.com*2Fv3*2F__http*3A*2Flchcautobio.ucsd.edu*2F__*3B!!KGKeukY!mfefVhx1dCFAyGtgu1Cikifds7GDsRyD04iD8MeQEj4zaGS8Hd_9zHLWYpcuG-RKwDPvbHDX*24&data=02*7C01*7Cdkirsh*40lsu.edu*7C464218f1265c49de2d4708d8404a6038*7C2d4dad3f50ae47d983a09ae2b1f466f8*7C0*7C0*7C637330035495851541&sdata=9aIBTQlWlQm5yN2bg2zXqZXeCfwz5mtMR37zpYiQ*2B*2Fo*3D&reserved=0__;JSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUl!!Mih3wA!SNLJ-8K5y_jTqIlalgeDUNMkwlK-gLQ-29qgKtRlf8Hm4RMr2UBcvgTsukMf7pmWti0GiA$>.
>>
>>
>
>
> -- 
>
>
>   IAngelus Novus
>   <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus__;!!Mih3wA!S845m95vsINxt4s22zZiybOhe-tfIm039bqqUKtlI5EaTyNUbwqPDEoF5zY_1W6PBGEpgQ$>The
>   Angel's View of History
>
>   It is only in a social context that subjectivism and
>   objectivism, spiritualism and materialism, activity and
>   passivity cease to be antinomies, and thus cease to
>   exist as such antinomies. The resolution of the
>   theoretical contradictions is possible only through
>   practical means, only through the practical energy of
>   humans. (Marx, 1844).
>
> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!RtDGgUfRnyhbmLtiqAHsxk7rk35ACL9VywkdFyTL8n5RrU_gOJOpvA1L7OfmeXtEPch_mA$  
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!S845m95vsINxt4s22zZiybOhe-tfIm039bqqUKtlI5EaTyNUbwqPDEoF5zY_1W5CHcfdSw$>
> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-generatingchat.com__;!!Mih3wA!S845m95vsINxt4s22zZiybOhe-tfIm039bqqUKtlI5EaTyNUbwqPDEoF5zY_1W7ffsgz6w$>
> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu 
> <http://lchc.ucsd.edu>.
> Narrative history of LCHC: lchcautobio.ucsd.edu 
> <http://lchcautobio.ucsd.edu>.
>
>
>
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