[Xmca-l] Re: "conscious awareness enters through the gate" (a Participation Question)

Wed Aug 12 11:38:32 PDT 2020

Don't ask me, Greg.
I was asked for a conclusion from the text. LSV quite clearly states in
several places that indigenous (primitive/non-literate) peoples develop the
ability
to think in complexes, not true concepts.

These are super serious and important questions but I am having great
difficulty keeping track of
the different inter-twined threads and the many experiences that are
brought to the discussion.

mike

On Wed, Aug 12, 2020 at 11:13 AM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Mike,
> Seems like the way you put that could be interpreted in a rather nasty
> fashion.
> To wit, does what you said mean that the Vai or the Yanomami don't have
> consciousness bc they don't have scientific concepts?
> -greg
>
> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 3:25 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
>> Hi Anthony
>>
>> I understand that to mean that humans who have not achieved
>> scientific/real concepts do not have conscious awareness.
>>
>> What am I missing?
>> Mike
>>
>> On Tue, Aug 11, 2020 at 1:06 PM Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Good afternoon,
>>>
>>> This is a question -- and an invitation:
>>>
>>> First the question: *What do you understand the passage below (at the
>>> bottom of this email) to mean?*
>>>
>>> Second, the invitation: *How about sharing your thoughts in short video
>>> form?* It's quite enjoyable (ask Andy; ask David; etc) -- and it's also
>>> helpful, not only to me but to anyone watching or listening. (Here is the
>>> question again, in video form: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/l41nsz__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370Ityeoftnw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/l41nsz__;!!Mih3wA!RbTsEBrr1M-JQ2E0Cza-8aoA440vsBAtR7DQicuejOZvYN1AOyytgVid7plmKnYKHKx2jw$>
>>> )
>>>
>>> I believe that many people -- including many teachers -- would benefit
>>> from answers to this question, preferably multiple answers. With
>>> permission, I will nicely edit and add your response to this growing list
>>> of asked-and-answered questions: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/451nsz__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370Iv893Ww1w$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://tiny.cc/451nsz__;!!Mih3wA!RbTsEBrr1M-JQ2E0Cza-8aoA440vsBAtR7DQicuejOZvYN1AOyytgVid7plmKnayu3KfOQ$>
>>> Thanks for considering it, and note that we don't care about perfectionism
>>> here; it's mostly for fun.
>>>
>>> *Here is the passage in question*, from *Thinking and Speech*, Ch. 6,
>>> pp. 190-1:
>>>
>>>> "To perceive something in a different way means to acquire new
>>>> potentials for acting with respect to it. At the chess board, to see
>>>> differently is to play differently. By generalizing the process of activity
>>>> itself, I acquire the potential for new relationships with it. To speak
>>>> crudely, it is as if this process has been isolated from the general
>>>> activity of consciousness. I am conscious of the fact that I remember. I
>>>> make my own remembering the object of consciousness. An isolation arises
>>>> here. In a certain sense, any generalization or abstraction isolates its
>>>> object. This is why conscious awareness – understood as generalization –
>>>> leads directly to mastery.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> *Thus, the foundation of conscious awareness is the generalization or
>>>> abstraction of the mental processes, which leads to their mastery*.
>>>> Instruction has a decisive role in this process. Scientific concepts have a
>>>> unique relationship to the object. This relationship is mediated through
>>>> other concepts that themselves have an internal hierarchical system of
>>>> interrelationships. It is apparently in this domain of the scientific
>>>> concept that conscious awareness of concepts or the generalization and
>>>> mastery of concepts emerges for the first time. And once a new structure of
>>>> generalization has arisen in one sphere of thought, it can – like any
>>>> structure – be transferred without training to all remaining domains of
>>>> concepts and thought. Thus, *conscious awareness enters through the
>>>> gate opened up by the scientific concept*."
>>>
>>>
>>> What do you understand this passage to mean?
>>>
>>> Thanks 😎
>>>
>>> Anthony Barra
>>>
>>> P.S. My first encounter with *Thinking and Speech* was very difficult,
>>> even with the help of talented classmates and a smart professor.
>>> Thankfully, three online videos from Nikolai Veresov, presented not as a
>>> definitive reading but as a general map of the book's terrain, were really
>>> so helpful and encouraging for me. If any videos I'm posting turn out to be
>>> similarly useful (as a number of people have told me), that's great. So
>>> thank you again to anyone interested in participating.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>
>> I[image: Angelus Novus]
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus__;!!Mih3wA!TggWICG1J2w02_x0SWKzYW-4ftmVOZbkZFfs4G9fjlQAO_5Rcb22DdO_08zpANlVawtVtw$>The
>> Angel's View of History
>>
>> It is only in a social context that subjectivism and objectivism,
>> spiritualism and materialism, activity and passivity cease to be
>> antinomies, and thus cease to exist as such antinomies. The resolution of
>> the theoretical contradictions is possible only through practical means,
>> only through the practical energy of humans. (Marx, 1844).
>> Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370ItnlYMMIw$ 
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!TggWICG1J2w02_x0SWKzYW-4ftmVOZbkZFfs4G9fjlQAO_5Rcb22DdO_08zpANlZapN6Hg$>
>> Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://re-generatingchat.com__;!!Mih3wA!TggWICG1J2w02_x0SWKzYW-4ftmVOZbkZFfs4G9fjlQAO_5Rcb22DdO_08zpANnwRjh-9A$>
>> Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu.
>> Narrative history of LCHC:  lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370Iv3afyV-w$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!Quf6qyGvNGvBoVtCkwSjtnSf6TooVJ1Vt86IFaloIYYetMJledD29V6mU9Lanc6IkID2UQ$>
>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370IunB1LPRQ$ 
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson__;!!Mih3wA!Quf6qyGvNGvBoVtCkwSjtnSf6TooVJ1Vt86IFaloIYYetMJledD29V6mU9Lanc6EnB-wcg$>
>

-- 

I[image: Angelus Novus] <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angelus_Novus__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370Iv2MbFRVg$ >The
Angel's View of History

It is only in a social context that subjectivism and objectivism,
spiritualism and materialism, activity and passivity cease to be
antinomies, and thus cease to exist as such antinomies. The resolution of
the theoretical contradictions is possible only through practical means,
only through the practical energy of humans. (Marx, 1844).
Cultural Praxis Website: https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://culturalpraxis.net__;!!Mih3wA!QuhPo3bzAQk3OS1Zoy_U0nH9VLR4wbj7vqrpktUDajpR1lR-wyPFSb4O5l370ItnlYMMIw$ 
Re-generating CHAT Website: re-generatingchat.com
Archival resources website: lchc.ucsd.edu.
Narrative history of LCHC:  lchcautobio.ucsd.edu.
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