[Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over

Wed Apr 29 23:49:06 PDT 2020

Greetings and thanks for generous givings!
But if the Coronavirus were able to keep the bellies unfilled , the bodies
nude and at the mercy of storms and chillings and frosts , then the best of
the gigantic souls and the embodiments of all spirituality , intimacy and
sublime relationships would rather reincarnate in other creatures of some
other planets. Now that we have produced or are able to produce more than
what the whole galaxy needs to sustain , we have distanced our origin and
the base of the phenomena. Hence easy to talk of other of the material
exchange. The irony is that we even now eat to get to obesity. Nothing of
the holiness of Marx was lost by his focusing on production , exchange ,
distribution and consumption. He explained them in the best of the ways not
just to be thinkable but applicable as well practicable. It just remains
for us to at times read between the lines. What he was worried about was
that for him was thinkable that if Capital finds more open ways , the whole
existence is (not will be) swallowed at the blink of an eye. Corona is
innocent compared to atrocities Capital did to Mankind let alone
mercifulness , compassion and love. As long as WALLSTREET,s govern , all
values on behalf of all Valuables subsist. And you well know that all they
get by profit , will be gone soullessly if just they knew that
re-accumulation would bring them not just less profit but just profit as
before. Thanks again and regards    Haydi

On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 10:09 PM Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Martin,
>
> Yes, you point to a valid concern: total hegemony of intimate
> relationships on a universal scale would be a problem. But that wasn't
> exactly my point (unclear as it was). (I don't entirely agree with you -
> I'd suggest that some kind of universal connection, perhaps a universal
> kinship, would be important for a more humane world, but that is not the
> same as a close meaningful relationship with every single human being that
> we encounter).
>
> My point was about the problematic nature of the hegemony of
> exchange-based relations (i.e. the capitalist relation in which "what value
> can I get from you" - you might call it "The Art of the Deal"!). At the
> very least, might you agree that it is a problem if we see ALL human
> relationships in these terms?
>
> -greg
>
> On Wed, Apr 29, 2020 at 8:56 AM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
>> Hi Greg,
>>
>> Are you suggesting that you would like to be able to build a personal
>> relationship with each and every one of your students? And with all your
>> colleagues at the university.? And all the staff at the local supermarket?
>> And all the people who work to send you packages from Amazon? And ….
>>
>> That’s to say, there are reasons why humans have added ‘anonymous’
>> interactions to the personal and interpersonal relationship that (as you
>> acknowledge) we still build and maintain.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>> On Apr 28, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Helena,
>>
>> It sounds like you are describing the commodity fetish. The labor of the
>> professor is no longer seen as their own production. Instead it is seen
>> that the professor simply draws from some "body of knowledge" or a
>> credential that has a particular (monetary) value. As with any good (i.e.,
>> bad) commodity relation, even the exchange relations between buyer and
>> seller (professor and student) are hidden and the professor is merely a
>> conduit to that valuable knowledge or credential. What the professor has to
>> offer is MONETIZED, perhaps we might say that the professor themself is
>> monetized, even BRANDED (take a look at the web pages of young faculty and
>> you'll see how important "brand yourself" has become in the academy). The
>> professor and her work are understood in terms of market value, return
>> on investment, earning potential of students.
>>
>> Students today understand their task as being a good consumer; to get at
>> least equal value from professors as they pay in tuition. (granted much of
>> this is via a credential, but the professors are a big part of what stands
>> behind the university's credential). You'll hear students frequently
>> complain (rightly so) about how much they are paying for their education
>> followed by some specific complaint about a professor.
>>
>> This is all part of a larger system in which this is understood as how
>> the world works. You get what you pay for. There ain't no such thing as a
>> free lunch. And so on. Can we blame students for wanting to know what
>> they are going to "get" for the money that they pay for college, and note
>> that this gets even more intense during hard economic times, of which we
>> are deep into right this moment (although the fear usually takes a
>> semester or two before people start fleeing the humanities and the social
>> sciences to business, engineering, computer science, or pre-anything).
>>
>> (and Lave and Mcdermott's article on Estranged Labor Learning might be
>> worth revisiting in this regard?)
>>
>> In addition to Marx's commodity fetish, a related and interesting way to
>> think of this is in terms of Marcel Mauss' notion of gift vs. exchange
>> economy (if you'll allow me to oversimplify a bit). The main difference
>> is that an exchange economy involves transactions that are always
>> calculated to be of exactly equal value. The $13 pair of shoes I buy at the
>> store are worth EXACTLY $13. Each party to the transaction gets their
>> "money's worth". Sounds great right? Fair, to be sure. Except it means that
>> there is no relationship established between the parties. After the
>> exchange, the parties no longer have any meaningful relationship. In
>> contrast, a gifting relationship is not responded in kind (at least not
>> initially). As Mary Douglas says in her intro to Mauss' book The Gift,
>> "there are no free gifts". Note that this is a very different statement
>> from Milton Friedman's "there ain't no such thing as a free lunch". Douglas
>> means that the gift creates a sense of obligation and thus a relationship.
>> As much as we might understand this in intimate spaces, as Americans in
>> public spaces all we know are exchange relationships (people reject
>> healthcare for all b.c. "why should I have to pay for healthcare for
>> someone else", ditto for education (yes, there is a movement in the US to
>> get rid of public education!)). This is the logic behind the out-of-hand
>> rejection of socialism - it does not make sense in the logic of exchange.
>> And, of course, taxes are justified only in as much as you "get" something
>> for it (roads, police, fire department, public transport, etc.) and
>> increasingly tax dollars are getting hyper-localized so that you get
>> precisely what you pay for and don't pay a dime more (e.g., gated
>> communities with private police force, fire dept, etc).
>>
>> Interestingly I just today was privilege to hear a colleague present
>> about his work in Papua New Guinea (the island of Missima, in the Massim
>> region - the site of the Kula ring made famous to Westerners by Malinowski
>> - and yes, the Kula ring still operates today). He noted that Missimans
>> can't understand why Americans (and other Westerners) are so interested in
>> engaging in exchanges that cut ties (e.g., buying things from them and then
>> running off). And when Missimans do try to engage in gifting relationships
>> with Americans, they are struck by how quickly the Americans run off, never
>> to return (what idiots those Americans are!). It is absolutely baffling to
>> them since they spend their days building relationships with others. Why
>> would someone not want relationships with others?
>>
>> Can we perhaps understand their bafflement?
>>
>> And what, then, is human development within a world where relations of
>> exchange are everything? (and thankfully, it isn't total, we Americans
>> still view kin relations as something more than an exchange relation).
>>
>> Anyway, that's at least two times two cents too much. And terribly
>> inchoate. Far too "off the cuff". Apologies.
>>
>> -greg
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Apr 28, 2020 at 11:19 AM Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> thanks!
>>>
>>> Helena Worthen
>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://helenaworthen.wordpress.com__;!!Mih3wA!UVu0FyqJVuJenyvV_scJ3MWPEkVsnH0IzNgN9NaOMBtflAfvMwpBsESRDItyh51rXR3z3Q$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 7:48 PM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> How about this Helena?:
>>>
>>> "Time is the room of human development. A man who has no free time to
>>> dispose of, whose whole lifetime, apart from the mere physical
>>> interruptions by sleep, meals, and so forth, is absorbed by his labour for
>>> the capitalist, is less than a beast of burden. He is a mere machine for
>>> producing Foreign Wealth, broken in body and brutalized in mind. Yet the
>>> whole history of modern industry shows that capital, if not checked, will
>>> recklessly and ruthlessly work to cast down the whole working class to this
>>> utmost state of degradation."
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7M8Rk-rEw$ 
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1865/value-price-profit/ch03.htm__;!!Mih3wA!U0ZIjNUqNnItiZjyJjIUnKMWddqAJiWLdB_L-G5Wb6DNQLTG7uZz_Seq6oZRbIPgrIdiUQ$>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!U0ZIjNUqNnItiZjyJjIUnKMWddqAJiWLdB_L-G5Wb6DNQLTG7uZz_Seq6oZRbIM88h444g$>
>>> Home Page
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!U0ZIjNUqNnItiZjyJjIUnKMWddqAJiWLdB_L-G5Wb6DNQLTG7uZz_Seq6oZRbIOjmsOLvw$>
>>> On 28/04/2020 5:23 am, Helena Worthen wrote:
>>>
>>> Andy’s paper has basically 4 parts.  One a flyby overview of the history
>>> of the US — this is where the majority of criticisms by people I know are
>>> showing up because people have different versions of that history. Then the
>>> argument that with the US going down as one of the poles of global
>>> leadership. My friends and family agree with this and are all, as
>>> Americans, offering examples of how they have experienced this. Andy notes
>>> that there is an empty spot at the top that hasn’t been taken yet.  Then
>>> comes his COVID-19 point, that this is a global moment in which the whole
>>> world is participating. Most of the xmca discussion has been about that so
>>> far, if I’m not mistaken. And finally a challenge to foresee what we will
>>> learn from this experience.
>>>
>>> OK, now trying to forsee what we can learn is what I’m doing.  So here
>>> is my question, appropriate for this list since we are all interested in
>>> education. I found myself writing the following, as part of describing the
>>> way a workforce can be intentionally divided into feuding packs of enemies
>>> so that we can’t take action in solidarity. We’re referring to “the
>>> distortions of human development under capitalism” and say that “we see
>>> this in its sharpest form in the for-profit part of the higher education
>>> industry. We have to look past the distortion to find the original, human
>>> connection….”
>>>
>>> One of our readers asks where this concept came from. I don’t remember!!
>>> It makes sense, though, doesn’t? Anyone have any idea where it came from?
>>> So far I’m saying,
>>>
>>> The concept of “distortions of human development under capitalism”
>>> depends on looking at human development as occurring within a social,
>>> historical and cultural framework – not just the development of individuals
>>> on their own or within a family or even a school, but within a society.
>>> Specifically we mean psychological and cognitive disabilities ranging from
>>> lack of empathy, envy, despair, alienation and bullying to obesity, eating
>>> disorders and stress-related auto-immune illness.
>>>
>>> Thanks — H
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Helena Worthen
>>> h
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://helenaworthen.wordpress.com__;!!Mih3wA!UcGlX0bri43EmtmpvW-FJpbJfMb7jPTAosJ6QpYDWeFiy_BNZhBTLSo7yel8Mfwas-BdIg$>
>>> elenaworthen@gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 27, 2020, at 9:29 AM, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I have been circulating Andy’s paper among close friends and family to
>>> generate discussion. What is mostly coming back is confirmation of the
>>> general arc, with examples from personal experience, but some disagreement
>>> about cause. These are “inside” views — meaning, people who are US citizens
>>> talking about us, so these are experiences of the passing of an era and
>>> what they look like from inside.
>>>
>>> About a year ago I realized that, for better or worse, I identify as “an
>>> American.” And I don’t mean North American.
>>>
>>> Chris Appy’s book, *American Reckoning*, is a pretty good history that
>>> takes us from the 1940s up to Obama and tracks the hole we fell into with
>>> the Vietnam War. For people of my generation (BA 1965 — and I mention that
>>> date rather than when I was born because 1965 connects to the draft, the
>>> lottery, the anti-war demonstrations, the asssinations, etc etc) the story
>>> told with the Vietnam War in the foreground connects very tightly to lived
>>> experience.
>>>
>>> Helena Worthen
>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://helenaworthen.wordpress.com/__;!!Mih3wA!UcGlX0bri43EmtmpvW-FJpbJfMb7jPTAosJ6QpYDWeFiy_BNZhBTLSo7yel8MfzvtKpTMQ$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Apr 22, 2020, at 4:30 AM, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7PmSdaSug$ 
>>> [ethicalpolitics.org]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_ZdQvTjgA$>
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> --
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_bmjhN_kw$>
>>> Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org]
>>> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_aKuyy5Zw$>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> WEBSITE: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://anthropology.byu.edu/greg-thompson__;!!Mih3wA!XCRmBr6Y8-jbO4euckQuc4mym5WYIqkvU6ndUHvbU13pl--AEhEAJROnTZJmV7O8-HglKQ$ 
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>
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>
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