[Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over

Wed Apr 22 17:25:55 PDT 2020

Speaking here as someone interested, no intention to moderate anything here, just participating as someone really interested, and frankly quite puzzled by the later reference to narrativization and social memory…

Climate change is a narrative, of course; or rather, it is many narratives. Do we agree? But climate change also is many more things than just many narratives, is not it? I mean, it also is a number of facts, events, correlations, and death tolls. The same goes for 9/11, or the holocaust, right? We can tell different stories about each of these historical events, and still count the same numbers when we go about counting corpses. Don’t we?

Negationism is also a narrative, isn’t it? Negating that there is such a thing as climate change, or that there is such a thing as a public health crisis. But it also is more than a narrative, isn’t it? It is a movement of people, and a powerful moving force indeed. You can tell the story that yes, there may be some pandemic, but no “good” reason to be keeping social distance, not for this long, not in this state, not for this professions or work classes... People may go out to the streets and manifest, in the US, or in Germany, or elsewhere, rightfully telling the story that we should open the country now. Others may tell to themselves to better stay home. Either way, we can still count the death tolls, or look at the numbers in the NYT article below.

After we get our numbers, do our correlations, if we do like scientists (and perhaps being in the business we should), we may present a rapport. We may discover whether there was relation between policies and death numbers, or poll numbers, or number of acres burned in the next fires against ppm of CO2 in the atmosphere. We can show all those numbers in Fox, or in the NYT, or Aljazeera. Either way, it will always be possible for someone like the current president of the US to read the numbers and say—like he said when asked about an internal report made by his own administration documenting the devastating effects of climate change for the nation—“I’ve seen it [the report], I’ve read some of it and … it’s fine. I don’t believe it”. https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szHhWhZZzTs__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhYgL3ad2A$  . After all, it’s just a chronicle, a narrativization… or is it?

So yes, I think Anthony is right. People see what they want to see and seem to have little difficulty finding confirmation, and there certainly is no one true story in either side of the bi-partisan spectrum. Unfortunately, though, running records of predicted effects of Climate Change are turning to be worse than predicted, and not independently of the story being told. The more negationism’s been fueled, the higher the numbers, the temperatures, and displaced people. After the fact, some stories and chronicles about these developments will be certainly more righteous than others, that’s for sure. Some may lead to even higher death toll numbers, or extinction, and some may help future generations learn how to survive or even thrive. But who knows?

Thanks for raising such important issues, and for the opportunity to learn about them.
Alfredo
From: <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com>
Reply to: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Date: Thursday, 23 April 2020 at 01:33
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over

Thank you for your concern, Julian.

The sky has been falling here since 2015 -- or so they say.  Maybe this time, at long last, they are right.  I don't think so, but maybe.

I have observed that most people, regardless of "team," 1) see what they want to see and have little difficulty finding confirmation (especially on the Internet); and 2) rarely maintain running records of their predictions (even on the Internet).  Maybe you have noticed this as well.

Would like to see something really cool? It's this lecture, you might know it: https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WInttyZYt3A__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhaljr6HDg$  [youtube.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=WInttyZYt3A__;!!Mih3wA!XviqlLPcMOLS6BB2wIq9s4aG2w_Hxrgy2L3AorSg23NED2YTFwrSDhzKWtjvzRnUveIQcQ$>

I collected some quotes from it once, as it reminded me of an interesting concept known around here as "two movies on one screen."
Some quotes from the speaker, Jim Wertsch:

  *   "Memory and history are not scientific in the sense that they rely on narrativization -- narrative."
  *   "A chronicle wants to tell a story . . . what does...narrativization, or narrative organization, add to a chronicle?"
  *   "When we talk about 'Is a story true or not?' we're talking about a different kind of truth than a propositional truth; when we say 'true story' what we largely mean is 'right story' or 'the correct story' - but that's a self-centered view...different from propositional truth"
  *   "In mnemonic debates - debates over what really happened - we get very upset because we say 'this is not opinion; this is not values; this is truth, and you're telling me that you don't understand the truth.'  And when we get to that point, we're in a bad position because we can not get out of those rhetorical corners. So usually this is not about propositional truth; it's about narrative truth."
  *   "When we say, 'X is in a different world,' it means 'I don't have a way of understand the gulf that separates us' or 'X is not in touch with reality,' it means 'I don't understand what this other perspective is.' We're in what I would call a 'mnemonic standoff.'"
  *   "We use narratives as if they're clear windows and you look right through them (but) it's more like a prism. You think you're looking that way but you're really seeing something over here. You don't know that the prism is shaping what you see. That's the way narratives work"
I like it!

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 5:55 PM Julian Williams <julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk<mailto:julian.williams@manchester.ac.uk>> wrote:
Anthony, again!

Let me help you here, pace NYTimes:

If this turns out to be true:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/opinion/coronavirus-us-cases.html__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhYgl5x4ig$  [nytimes.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/opinion/coronavirus-us-cases.html__;!!Mih3wA!Thq9B70VblZGnM99BEs5fxyBiyx97KDn0R9wlp73fmmP0mjgmwrrrWhj7ft2MsVP3DzE-Q$>
The number of new cases appears to have peaked about a week and a half ago. But the decline since then has been very modest. There are still about 30,000 Americans being diagnosed each day. The seven-day moving average of new cases — a measure that smooths out daily fluctuations — has declined only 2 percent since it peaked 11 days ago.
As you can see that’s not typical. In other countries, the number of new cases has usually declined much more sharply after peaking.
Why? It’s impossible to know for certain with a virus as complex and unknown as this one. But there is an obvious potential cause: Many political leaders in the United States, including President Trump, are not following the advice of public health experts regarding distancing..

and this turns out to be true:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html?referringSource=articleShare__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNha9XwkTjA$  [nytimes.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.nytimes.com/2020/04/22/us/politics/coronavirus-china-disinformation.html?referringSource=articleShare__;!!Mih3wA!Thq9B70VblZGnM99BEs5fxyBiyx97KDn0R9wlp73fmmP0mjgmwrrrWhj7ft2MsWUak6XMw$>
American officials were alarmed by fake text messages and social media posts that said President Trump was locking down the country.

Then there is a possibility that dissent in the US that could lead to the nightmare scenario of ongoing very high levels of transmission for some time to come.

I can’t make up my mind from what you write - which is always incredibly arch -  whether you are suggesting the Trump administration is playing a clever game in encouraging these deathly trends, in view of the much more important outcome of victory in your upcoming elections.

Julian, again!

BTW this is not an anti American rant, as we have the same crass ‘leadership’ over here: check out John Ashton on DDN (Double Down News) – this is indeed a global politics now, perhaps just in time too.

From: <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on behalf of Anthony Barra <anthonymbarra@gmail.com<mailto:anthonymbarra@gmail.com>>
Reply-To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
Date: Wednesday, 22 April 2020 at 19:05
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu<mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: As of 2020, the American Century is Over

Andy,

Unless someone beats me to it, I will annotate this article when time allows -- not as a fact-check or correction, but from an occluded view.

Thank you for writing it; it is an excellent answer to the question, "what might the view from abroad look like, if reliant primarily on the New York Times and CNN?" (i.e., similar to the view domestically, under same conditions)

This is not an insult nor critique -- as you know from our offline exchanges. It just is what it is; I have my blind spots too (we are all human).

Cheers ~
Anthony

On Wed, Apr 22, 2020 at 7:33 AM Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org<mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!VTtW7UoXlYcxVq3lQJfeIkOpNulv2mwZScVwIiwXTJY24cU2M3BucDf7zjVcNhZuYMUq2w$  [ethicalpolitics.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/American-Century.pdf__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_ZdQvTjgA$>

Andy
--
________________________________
Andy Blunden
Hegel for Social Movements [brill.com]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/brill.com/view/title/54574__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_bmjhN_kw$>
Home Page [ethicalpolitics.org]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm__;!!Mih3wA!RX_kT308fV5J979vU0HnZwn3N_ILxa76WV811I3K7Q1lByCHw_H-2IpA6g71m_aKuyy5Zw$>
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