[Xmca-l] Re: Research on refugees/immigrants/migrants and Legitimate Peripheral Participation?

[Huw Lloyd]

Yes, but interestingly this may only be "potentially exploitation" in the
circumstances of apprenticeship to distinguish genuine participatory
learning from "doing porridge".

I can entertain the notion that strife serves an important function and in
doing so the tyranny of inaccessible means of production may have some
virtue. That's probably not very communist.

On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 15:44, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:

> I don't agree with that. The classic mode of exploitation is private
> ownership of the social means of production, but being "conscious" of this
> as a means of exploitation labels you as a Communist, which the majority
> are not
>
> andy
> ------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 28/06/2019 12:36 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>
> Well, you say it is exceptional to be exploited in that manner. Rather it
> seems unexceptional. It is only exceptional if one takes the position that
> one is only being exploited if one is conscious of it ... which may be the
> case.
>
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 15:11, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
>> Yes, of course. This does no contradict the point I am making at all.
>> Just an elaboration of it.
>>
>> andy
>> ------------------------------
>> *Andy Blunden*
>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 28/06/2019 12:01 am, Huw Lloyd wrote:
>>
>> "If, for example, the apprentice already had the skills and tools
>> required for the relevant practice then they would* not *need an
>> apprenticeship and would not be vulnerable to exploitation."
>>
>> Those forms of exploitation come via the necessity credentials,
>> certification, probationary periods etc. Of course, if one genuinely has
>> the skill, then one may find (the rare) employers who are able to recognise
>> it. There are mobility issues to being stupefied through indoctrination,
>> just as there are mobility issues to declining it. :)
>>
>> On Thu, 27 Jun 2019 at 14:47, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Oops. typos ... fixed
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 27/06/2019 11:35 pm, Andy Blunden wrote:
>>>
>>> Alfredo, I think it is precisely by participation in a common activity
>>> (or project or community of practice) that oppression takes place. The
>>> apprentice voluntarily submits themself to the activity and the division of
>>> labour, roles, etc., inherent in it. The master necessarily has power over
>>> the apprentice, and active attention is required to avoid exploitation
>>> and oppression to avoid the master exploiting the apprentice in the
>>> process of inducting them into the practice.
>>>
>>> If, for example, the apprentice already had the skills and tools
>>> required for the relevant practice then they would* not *need an
>>> apprenticeship and would not be vulnerable to exploitation.
>>>
>>> Although exploitation and oppression probably does occur when the master
>>> does not have anything that the apprentice needs, but I think that is
>>> exceptional.
>>>
>>> Andy
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *Andy Blunden*
>>> https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>> On 27/06/2019 9:18 pm, Alfredo Jornet Gil wrote:
>>>
>>> Just to add, that the problem I'd like to learn more about is, how does
>>> a framework that takes apprenticeship and community as starting point help
>>> when the object of research is one that concerns oppression and
>>> dehumanisation?
>>>
>>>
>>> Alfredo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on
>>> behalf of Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@ils.uio.no> <a.j.gil@ils.uio.no>
>>> *Sent:* 27 June 2019 02:37
>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Research on refugees/immigrants/migrants and
>>> Legitimate Peripheral Participation?
>>>
>>>
>>> I cannot help with this, Greg, since I don't know of work specifically
>>> connecting the two. But if your student gets to write about that, I'd be
>>> very interested in reading her/his work.
>>>
>>>
>>> A few days ago, I was listening Amy Goodman's interview with a lawyer
>>> who visited children detention centres in the US border. I literally cried
>>> as I was commuting to work listening to the horrendous inhumanity being
>>> described.
>>>
>>>
>>> (Interview here:) https://www.democracynow.org/shows/2019/6/24
>>>
>>>
>>> Now, reading your question, I wondered, what is "legitimate
>>> participation" for a child in a detention center? What is the center and
>>> what the periphery in such a context? And for a Syrian refugee in a
>>> shelter in Turkey? Is there anything like a community of practice that
>>> belongs to being a refugee or immigrant?
>>>
>>>
>>> Not that I am sceptical about or questioning the relevance of the
>>> approach to the issue. Just that I don't know how, would like to know.
>>>
>>>
>>> Best,
>>>
>>> Alfredo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on
>>> behalf of Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>> <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* 26 June 2019 18:23
>>> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Research on refugees/immigrants/migrants and
>>> Legitimate Peripheral Participation?
>>>
>>> Just wondering if anyone out there could point me to research on
>>> refugees/immigrants/migrants and Legitimate Peripheral Participation (or
>>> otherwise connect the former with Lave and Wenger's communities of
>>> practice)?
>>>
>>> (this is for a student of mine)
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Greg
>>>
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>
>>>
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