[Xmca-l] Re: History of Explicit and Implicit Knowledge

Fri Jun 14 11:36:56 PDT 2019

I think I will disagree. Bits of explicit learning embedded into implicit
events when you have explicit goals make a difference.

Meaning in the two spaces I am studying #IndieWeb and #ds106 people engage
in explicit learning all the time. They need to make a gif or learn CSS.

Yet other times folks muck about trying new things.

In each of these events people may have an overarching goal... As I type I
am drawn to Dewey and Art and Experience.

I do find embedding skills in a passion whrn I teach web development is
key. Is Passion implicit learning or the most explicit imaginable?

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 10:27 AM Peter Feigenbaum [Staff] <
pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu> wrote:

> Greg,
>
> I'm not sure about implicit *knowledge*, but the earliest studies on
> implicit *learning* were conducted by Arthur Reber in the 1960s. I had the
> good fortune of being a graduate student at CUNY Graduate Center in
> Developmental Psychology in the 1980s when Arthur was there as a visiting
> scholar. He was studying implicit learning of *grammar* by adults and
> children. What struck me about the phenomenon (then and now) is that
> subjects in experiments are unaware that they are engaged in implicit
> learning - and when asked to think about the task they are performing while
> they are learning to infer patterns implicitly, their performance
> deteriorates significantly. It would seem that implicit and explicit
> learning are activities that conflict with each other.
>
> This info may not be at all relevant to your question, but I thought I
> should mention it.
>
> Cheers,
> Peter
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 7:26 AM Greg Mcverry <jgregmcverry@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Thank you all, excatly what I am looking for. This idea of applying
>> implicit and explicit knowledge to D, P, and C makes total sense.
>>
>> I will be rejecting much as well but it is the langauge of my audience so
>> I wanted to grasp the origin.
>>
>> I am also trying to track how my ideas get captured and transformed here:
>> https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/06/14/using-my-commonplace-book-to-write-an-article
>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com_2019_06_14_using-2Dmy-2Dcommonplace-2Dbook-2Dto-2Dwrite-2Dan-2Darticle&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=5NkpeiWUmHvx6EYKyYLIFUpz1dCqfsmfYPqFhJ7OUqQ&e=>
>>
>> With your permission I would like to quote your emails in the same post.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:40 AM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Keith Johnson, one of the professors on my MA at University of
>>> Essex,used the distinction between implicit and explicit on the one hand,
>>> and the J.R. Anderson model of DECPRO, PRODEC on the other. He didn't say
>>> anything about conditional knowledge, but from Anderson I gather it's
>>> something to do with the passive reception/active production distinction
>>> (that we Halllidayans reject).
>>>
>>> I never heard him use both of them together, in a matrix, so that there
>>> was implicit and explicit declarative knowledge, implicit and explicit
>>> procedural knowledge, and implicit and explicit conditional knowledge. But
>>> Keith was very GRAMMATICAL. It seems to me that if you apply it to
>>> PHONOLOGY, there isn't any reason we can't talk about implicit and explicit
>>> declarative knowledge (knowing THAT a sound is a /d/ and not a /t/
>>> implicitly and being able to express that idea in phonological terms)
>>> and it is also possible to talk about implicit and explicit procedural
>>> knowledge (knowing HOW to distinguish them without thinking about it, and
>>> knowing HOW they are distinguished by the movements of the articulators). I
>>> don't see any reason in principle why you couldn't do the same thing with
>>> conditional knowledge either, although I'm not really sure that all these
>>> distinctions are relevant to teaching.
>>>
>>> All of this, and a lot more, in his 19i96 book Skill Learning and
>>> Language Teaching (Blackwell).
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Sangmyung University
>>>
>>> New Article:
>>> Han Hee Jeung & David Kellogg (2019): A story without SELF: Vygotsky’s
>>> pedology, Bruner’s constructivism and Halliday’s construalism in
>>> understanding narratives by
>>> Korean children, Language and Education, DOI:
>>> 10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>>> To link to this article: https://doi.org/10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__doi.org_10.1080_09500782.2019.1582663&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=Z_PGe9VQYPqVUGV8dxx-MsXNU0iYmNIvu6Y-vSRQZrg&e=>
>>>
>>> Some e-prints available at:
>>>
>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK/full?target=10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tandfonline.com_eprint_KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK_full-3Ftarget-3D10.1080_09500782.2019.1582663&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=dlTSEQSXtCZwen38XmBQsCFMst6NxbENTUsHRRNKUFs&e=>
>>>
>>> All of this is in his 1996 book Skill Learning and Language Teaching
>>> (Blackwell).
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:50 AM Greg Mcverry <jgregmcverry@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hello all,
>>>>
>>>> I am carrying on my quest to rethink cognitive apprenticeships into
>>>> agentive apprenticeships for my work around innovation systems:
>>>> https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/07/my-fork-of-synea-into-a-saint
>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com_2019_03_07_my-2Dfork-2Dof-2Dsynea-2Dinto-2Da-2Dsaint&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=JxkaETsmrQCQNCIUZxTIcy_dtBqjaE6CMj2s7zvH80E&e=>
>>>>
>>>> Agentive apprenticeships defer more in centering the agency and choice
>>>> in the learner in a network of shared interest where the space and tools
>>>> teach much as any person.
>>>>
>>>> You may recall I originally asked for ideas around knowledge brokering
>>>> as it did not sit well with me. I decided to go with Knowledge Knitting as
>>>> my metaphor. It is used frequently in the OER Community and amongst under
>>>> represented scholars and if I can get the pictures out of my head and into
>>>> words it will make sense.
>>>>
>>>> But I am trying to chase down when the distinction between explicit and
>>>> implicit knowledge began. It weaves through all apprenticeship research up
>>>> through and including Gee's work on Affinity Spaces.
>>>>
>>>> I am more trained in the cognitive narrative that dominates reading
>>>> instruction today of declarative, procedural, and conditional knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> Two questions:
>>>> -When did the distinction between implicit and explicit knowledge begin?
>>>> -Are you aware of works that describe knowing in both implicit and
>>>> explicit and in declarative, procedural, and conditional knowledge.
>>>>
>>>> Greg
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Southern Connecticut State University
>>>> twitter: jgmac1106
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>
>> --
>> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
>> Assistant Professor
>> Southern Connecticut State University
>> twitter: jgmac1106
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
> Director,
> Office of Institutional Research
> <https://www.fordham.edu/info/24303/institutional_research>
> Fordham University
> Thebaud Hall-202
> Bronx, NY 10458
>
> Phone: (718) 817-2243
> Fax: (718) 817-3817
> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>
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