[Xmca-l] Re: History of Explicit and Implicit Knowledge

Fri Jun 14 11:21:58 PDT 2019

So agency is wiggle room (discoordination?) *plus ...*
Google translate tell me that the phrase "people have agency" is translated
as  люди имеют свободу действий (people possess freedom of action).

which brings us to freedom and action as Vygotskian concepts.

And if will is the ability to control oneself from the outside, but the
outside is that very same social
world that enabled you to use what they provided to control yourself, what
agency do "you"
have?  Wiggle room and.....

mike

On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 10:56 AM Greg Mcverry <jgregmcverry@gmail.com>
wrote:

> Can the earthworms consider the consequences of wiggiling this way or that
> and predicting the consequences of these choices or do they follow an
> almost programmatic biological following. If so is this agency and still
> learning in emodoed ways?
>
> I do keep a worm box those worms are more than cared for but not free? Are
> they missing agency?
>
> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019, 1:05 PM mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
>> The same distinction can be found usefully in the work of Giyoo Hatano
>> which you might find useful,Greg. A distinction is found in Wright's book
>> on Envisioning Real Utopias between ideology
>> and culture.
>>
>> Odd query:  Earth worms have an enormous effect on their environments and
>> hence ours.
>> Earth worms could not do this if they did not have "wiggle room." Would
>> you attribute the
>> tunnels and soil transformation of earth worms to them "having" agency?
>>
>> mike
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 8:20 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I think you'd need to qualify that statement, Peter, for it to be
>>> correct.
>>>
>>> The use of the phrase "involuntary" in P. I. Zinchenko's work pertains
>>> to "without volition" rather than "against one's volition".
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Huw
>>>
>>> On Fri, 14 Jun 2019 at 15:27, Peter Feigenbaum [Staff] <
>>> pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Greg,
>>>>
>>>> I'm not sure about implicit *knowledge*, but the earliest studies on
>>>> implicit *learning* were conducted by Arthur Reber in the 1960s. I had the
>>>> good fortune of being a graduate student at CUNY Graduate Center in
>>>> Developmental Psychology in the 1980s when Arthur was there as a visiting
>>>> scholar. He was studying implicit learning of *grammar* by adults and
>>>> children. What struck me about the phenomenon (then and now) is that
>>>> subjects in experiments are unaware that they are engaged in implicit
>>>> learning - and when asked to think about the task they are performing while
>>>> they are learning to infer patterns implicitly, their performance
>>>> deteriorates significantly. It would seem that implicit and explicit
>>>> learning are activities that conflict with each other.
>>>>
>>>> This info may not be at all relevant to your question, but I thought I
>>>> should mention it.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> Peter
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 7:26 AM Greg Mcverry <jgregmcverry@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Thank you all, excatly what I am looking for. This idea of applying
>>>>> implicit and explicit knowledge to D, P, and C makes total sense.
>>>>>
>>>>> I will be rejecting much as well but it is the langauge of my audience
>>>>> so I wanted to grasp the origin.
>>>>>
>>>>> I am also trying to track how my ideas get captured and transformed
>>>>> here:
>>>>> https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/06/14/using-my-commonplace-book-to-write-an-article
>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com_2019_06_14_using-2Dmy-2Dcommonplace-2Dbook-2Dto-2Dwrite-2Dan-2Darticle&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=5NkpeiWUmHvx6EYKyYLIFUpz1dCqfsmfYPqFhJ7OUqQ&e=>
>>>>>
>>>>> With your permission I would like to quote your emails in the same
>>>>> post.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 6:40 AM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Keith Johnson, one of the professors on my MA at University of
>>>>>> Essex,used the distinction between implicit and explicit on the one hand,
>>>>>> and the J.R. Anderson model of DECPRO, PRODEC on the other. He didn't say
>>>>>> anything about conditional knowledge, but from Anderson I gather it's
>>>>>> something to do with the passive reception/active production distinction
>>>>>> (that we Halllidayans reject).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I never heard him use both of them together, in a matrix, so that
>>>>>> there was implicit and explicit declarative knowledge, implicit and
>>>>>> explicit procedural knowledge, and implicit and explicit conditional
>>>>>> knowledge. But Keith was very GRAMMATICAL. It seems to me that if you apply
>>>>>> it to PHONOLOGY, there isn't any reason we can't talk about implicit and
>>>>>> explicit declarative knowledge (knowing THAT a sound is a /d/ and not a /t/
>>>>>> implicitly and being able to express that idea in phonological terms)
>>>>>> and it is also possible to talk about implicit and explicit procedural
>>>>>> knowledge (knowing HOW to distinguish them without thinking about it, and
>>>>>> knowing HOW they are distinguished by the movements of the articulators). I
>>>>>> don't see any reason in principle why you couldn't do the same thing with
>>>>>> conditional knowledge either, although I'm not really sure that all these
>>>>>> distinctions are relevant to teaching.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of this, and a lot more, in his 19i96 book Skill Learning and
>>>>>> Language Teaching (Blackwell).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> David Kellogg
>>>>>> Sangmyung University
>>>>>>
>>>>>> New Article:
>>>>>> Han Hee Jeung & David Kellogg (2019): A story without SELF: Vygotsky’s
>>>>>> pedology, Bruner’s constructivism and Halliday’s construalism in
>>>>>> understanding narratives by
>>>>>> Korean children, Language and Education, DOI:
>>>>>> 10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>>>>>> To link to this article:
>>>>>> https://doi.org/10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__doi.org_10.1080_09500782.2019.1582663&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=Z_PGe9VQYPqVUGV8dxx-MsXNU0iYmNIvu6Y-vSRQZrg&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Some e-prints available at:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK/full?target=10.1080/09500782.2019.1582663
>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__www.tandfonline.com_eprint_KHRxrQ4n45t9N2ZHZhQK_full-3Ftarget-3D10.1080_09500782.2019.1582663&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=dlTSEQSXtCZwen38XmBQsCFMst6NxbENTUsHRRNKUFs&e=>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> All of this is in his 1996 book Skill Learning and Language Teaching
>>>>>> (Blackwell).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Fri, Jun 14, 2019 at 9:50 AM Greg Mcverry <jgregmcverry@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am carrying on my quest to rethink cognitive apprenticeships into
>>>>>>> agentive apprenticeships for my work around innovation systems:
>>>>>>> https://quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com/2019/03/07/my-fork-of-synea-into-a-saint
>>>>>>> <https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__quickthoughts.jgregorymcverry.com_2019_03_07_my-2Dfork-2Dof-2Dsynea-2Dinto-2Da-2Dsaint&d=DwMFaQ&c=aqMfXOEvEJQh2iQMCb7Wy8l0sPnURkcqADc2guUW8IM&r=mXj3yhpYNklTxyN3KioIJ0ECmPHilpf4N2p9PBMATWs&m=sh86tsuk_K_vdn8cktM6VC_LRH3rfz5b4e1k6pcjkRs&s=JxkaETsmrQCQNCIUZxTIcy_dtBqjaE6CMj2s7zvH80E&e=>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Agentive apprenticeships defer more in centering the agency and
>>>>>>> choice in the learner in a network of shared interest where the space and
>>>>>>> tools teach much as any person.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> You may recall I originally asked for ideas around knowledge
>>>>>>> brokering as it did not sit well with me. I decided to go with Knowledge
>>>>>>> Knitting as my metaphor. It is used frequently in the OER Community and
>>>>>>> amongst under represented scholars and if I can get the pictures out of my
>>>>>>> head and into words it will make sense.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But I am trying to chase down when the distinction between explicit
>>>>>>> and implicit knowledge began. It weaves through all apprenticeship research
>>>>>>> up through and including Gee's work on Affinity Spaces.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I am more trained in the cognitive narrative that dominates reading
>>>>>>> instruction today of declarative, procedural, and conditional knowledge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Two questions:
>>>>>>> -When did the distinction between implicit and explicit knowledge
>>>>>>> begin?
>>>>>>> -Are you aware of works that describe knowing in both implicit and
>>>>>>> explicit and in declarative, procedural, and conditional knowledge.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
>>>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>>>> Southern Connecticut State University
>>>>>>> twitter: jgmac1106
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> J. Gregory McVerry, PhD
>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>> Southern Connecticut State University
>>>>> twitter: jgmac1106
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
>>>> Director,
>>>> Office of Institutional Research
>>>> <https://www.fordham.edu/info/24303/institutional_research>
>>>> Fordham University
>>>> Thebaud Hall-202
>>>> Bronx, NY 10458
>>>>
>>>> Phone: (718) 817-2243
>>>> Fax: (718) 817-3817
>>>> email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> The struggle of (hu)mans against power is the struggle of memory against
>> forgetting.
>> ― Milan Kundera (slightly edited)
>>
>

-- 
The struggle of (hu)mans against power is the struggle of memory against
forgetting.
― Milan Kundera (slightly edited)
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