[Xmca-l] Re: Passions, (Projects?) and Interests

Sat Jan 12 09:40:37 PST 2019

I know this may sound obtuse, Huw. But the concept of need in both LSV and
ANL has always
seemed very slippery to me. Presumably a long term need is to obtain enough
food, shelter......
but that involves social transactions that are culturally mediated.
Reproduction is a species need in one way and
I guess my felt need to check out how Arsenal is faring is short term. But
its long term equivalent? Seems more than epistemic/ontological. I am not
sure where sexual interests fit in.

Can this be explained in a manner that this struggling person can
understand?

mike

On Sat, Jan 12, 2019 at 8:49 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:

> Vygotsky likens them to temporary needs.
>
> Huw
>
> On Sat, 12 Jan 2019 at 00:36, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
>> Ah, so interests are the affective ingredient that accompanies the point
>> of.view?  A subjtive object?
>> Mike
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Interests have much to do with intentionality - and there is always a
>>> subjective angle from which the object (interests) is viewed - I don't
>>> recall coming across Vygotsky alluding to this.
>>> To illustrate my point, I use the term "evidentiality" (which in
>>> linguistics refers to statements being explicitly marked to show the source
>>> of the speaker's information, e.g. "I witnessed this"). It goes without
>>> saying that privileged access bears on one's interest (a state of being
>>> interested, or an act of taking an interest, in something). Thus, one
>>> person's interest is always a "secondary evidential" from another person's
>>> viewpoint, in which case another person has to make inference through sense
>>> perception, mediated by contextual factors (e.g. interpersonal, ideational
>>> and textual).
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>> *_______________________________________________________*
>>>
>>> *James Ma  Independent Scholar *
>>> *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
>>> <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>   *
>>>
>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:48, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So interests are curiosity, Huw?
>>>> Didn’t “Psychology of Art” have something to to do with Emotions, David?
>>>> 10 Volumes (!) of LSV! Wow.
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:58 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> For Vygotsky, interests are intentions.  Although he recognises that
>>>>> Lewin's structural theory is inadequate with regard to discerning the
>>>>> essence of interests, his own writings in that chapter focus upon
>>>>> developmental patterns of interests, and he does not get around to being
>>>>> explicit about what is behind interest -- what is really driving it. To a
>>>>> certain extent this is answered with the social situation of development,
>>>>> but unless one reads between the lines there is a great deal of vagueness,
>>>>> such as with reference to psychological functions.
>>>>>
>>>>> I have a rather large theoretical paper I am completing on this to
>>>>> compliment some empirical work. What I state is that it is epistemology
>>>>> (and ontology) that is the interest behind interest.
>>>>>
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Huw
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 12:08, Moises Esteban-Guitart <
>>>>> moises.esteban@udg.edu> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> That's an interesting question that I asked myself when I read
>>>>>> EDUCATIONAL
>>>>>> PSYCHOLOGY by Vygotsky "from one interest of the child’s to a new
>>>>>> interest
>>>>>> —that is the rule” (Vygotsky, 1926/1997a, p. 86). My conclusion was
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> it depends on the biographical moment (see pp. 393 to 396 document
>>>>>> attached). By the way, in his "Educational Psychology" he wrote on
>>>>>> sex too
>>>>>> ("Education on the sex instinct", pp. 71-77), however I didn't explore
>>>>>> this.
>>>>>> m
>>>>>>
>>>>>> > David,
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I would imagine the reference to interest relates to the STUDENTS'
>>>>>> > interest: meaning that whatever way it is approached it needs to be
>>>>>> > introduced from and in relation to the students' current
>>>>>> > knowledge/interest/developmental stage as opposed to being imposed
>>>>>> in a
>>>>>> > decontextualised way.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > At least I think that's what's going on here...
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Julie
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >> Sorry, Rob. I mean fifteen hours a year. The government has
>>>>>> itinerant
>>>>>> >> specialists who lecture from school to school. There is even a bus
>>>>>> for
>>>>>> >> visiting the provinces.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> In contrast, Vygotsky says:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> a) No class with ONLY sex education--since anatomical, sexual, and
>>>>>> >> sociocultural maturation do not coincide in modern humans, sex
>>>>>> education
>>>>>> >> is
>>>>>> >> not a science of a natural whole, where the object of study is
>>>>>> given to
>>>>>> >> us.
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> b) No classes WITHOUT sex education--since sex education is simply
>>>>>> >> learning
>>>>>> >> how to be with people who may be of sexual interest, all classes
>>>>>> must
>>>>>> >> have
>>>>>> >> some form of sexual "enlightenment".
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> c) No sex education without INTEREST. But what, exactly, is
>>>>>> interest?
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> David Kellogg
>>>>>> >> Sangmyung University
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> New in *Language and Literature*, co-authored with Fang Li:
>>>>>> >> Mountains in labour: Eliot’s ‘Atrocities’ and Woolf’s
>>>>>> >> alternatives
>>>>>> >> Show all authors
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> https://doi.org/10.1177/0963947018805660
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:40 PM robsub@ariadne.org.uk
>>>>>> >> <robsub@ariadne.org.uk>
>>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >>> Fifteen hours a week???
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> I hope it's not all practicals - the teachers would be exhausted.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> In the UK nowadays the very inadequate thing we do in schools is
>>>>>> called
>>>>>> >>> Sex and Relationship Education. The "and Relationship" bit was
>>>>>> tacked
>>>>>> >>> on
>>>>>> >>> some time in the 90s or maybe early 2000s, if I recall rightly.
>>>>>> They
>>>>>> >>> missed
>>>>>> >>> a trick there - they should have put it the other way round
>>>>>> >>> "Relationship
>>>>>> >>> and Sex Education". A very large lump of the population go into a
>>>>>> >>> tabloid
>>>>>> >>> induced panic as soon as they hear the word "sex", especially when
>>>>>> >>> related
>>>>>> >>> to children, and then fail to hear the "and relationship" it.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Rob
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> On 11/01/2019 07:14, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Last July in Geneva, I got into a bit of a tiff with my hosts over
>>>>>> >>> whether
>>>>>> >>> or not Vygotsky had a theory of emotion. The commonplace position,
>>>>>> >>> taken
>>>>>> >>> by
>>>>>> >>> almost all high Vygotskyans including my francophone friends, is
>>>>>> that
>>>>>> >>> Vygotsky spent too much of his life developing a theory of
>>>>>> thinking and
>>>>>> >>> intellect, complexes and concept formation, and when he turned his
>>>>>> >>> attention to the lower and higher emotions, that dark side of the
>>>>>> moon,
>>>>>> >>> it
>>>>>> >>> was too late. He worked out a kind of prolegomena, in the form of
>>>>>> >>> "Teaching
>>>>>> >>> on the Emotions" (or "Study of the Emotions" or perhaps "The
>>>>>> Doctrine
>>>>>> >>> of
>>>>>> >>> the Emotions"--you can read what he did in Volume 6 of the
>>>>>> Collected
>>>>>> >>> Works). And the rest was silence.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Here in Korea we are bringing out our tenth volume of Vygotsky's
>>>>>> works
>>>>>> >>> (see attached cover, with blurbs from Renee Van der Veer and Irina
>>>>>> >>> Leopoldoff-Martin). It's all about sex education, which is a very
>>>>>> >>> important
>>>>>> >>> topic here in Korea, because we have fifteen hours of sex
>>>>>> education a
>>>>>> >>> week
>>>>>> >>> mandated by the government, but the ministry of education has
>>>>>> more or
>>>>>> >>> less
>>>>>> >>> withdrawn the downloadable materials for this, not for the usual
>>>>>> >>> reasons
>>>>>> >>> but instead because of criticism from Human Rights Watch (it is
>>>>>> >>> terribly
>>>>>> >>> sexist, homophobic, and just plain ignorant).
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> Vygosky's view is that sex education (which he calls "sexual
>>>>>> >>> enlightenment") has to be integrated into ALL subjects (so for
>>>>>> example
>>>>>> >>> the
>>>>>> >>> test of a good sex enlightenment programme would be one that
>>>>>> ensures
>>>>>> >>> equal
>>>>>> >>> participation of boys and girls in math and physics), it has to
>>>>>> start
>>>>>> >>> as
>>>>>> >>> soon as preschoolers enter primary school, and it has to be
>>>>>> >>> INTERESTING.
>>>>>> >>> In
>>>>>> >>> other words, instead of the "sex education without sex" programme
>>>>>> we
>>>>>> >>> have
>>>>>> >>> here in South Korea, we need non-sex education...but with a good
>>>>>> deal
>>>>>> >>> of
>>>>>> >>> sex.
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> All of which has got me thinking about the problem my Geneva
>>>>>> friends
>>>>>> >>> set
>>>>>> >>> before me. I think that Vygotsky really DOES have a theory that
>>>>>> unites
>>>>>> >>> passions and interests. It's like that book by Hirschmann on how
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> >>> unity
>>>>>> >>> of passion and interest gave rise to capitalism, but instead it
>>>>>> is all
>>>>>> >>> about how passions, shared projects, and interests give rise to
>>>>>> sexual
>>>>>> >>> love, and it is more or less right before we would expect to find
>>>>>> it:
>>>>>> >>> in
>>>>>> >>> the Pedology of the Adolescent, right before the chapter on
>>>>>> concept
>>>>>> >>> formation, which shows how complexes (which are categories for
>>>>>> others)
>>>>>> >>> become concepts (categories for themselves). This is the chapter
>>>>>> on
>>>>>> >>> interests, which explains how passions (which are sensations in
>>>>>> >>> themselves)
>>>>>> >>> become interests: that is, emotions for themselves. (There is
>>>>>> already a
>>>>>> >>> passable translation of this in Volume Five of the CW). The only
>>>>>> thing
>>>>>> >>> is
>>>>>> >>> there is a need for a transitional form--a feeling with others.
>>>>>> Andy's
>>>>>> >>> idea
>>>>>> >>> of the Project?
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> David Kellogg
>>>>>> >>> Sangmyung University
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> New in *Language and Literature*, co-authored with Fang Li:
>>>>>> >>> Mountains in labour: Eliot’s ‘Atrocities’ and Woolf’s
>>>>>> >>> alternatives
>>>>>> >>> Show all authors
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>> https://doi.org/10.1177/0963947018805660
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>>
>>>>>> >>
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Dra. Julie Waddington
>>>>>> > Departament de Didàctiques Específiques
>>>>>> > Facultat d'Educació i Psicologia
>>>>>> > Universitat de Girona
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Moisès Esteban Guitart
>>>>>> Dpt de psicologia
>>>>>> Director - Institut de Recerca Educativa -
>>>>>> Facultat d'Educació i Psicologia
>>>>>> Universitat de Girona
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Grup de recerca "Cultura i Educació" (GRC  2017SGR19)
>>>>>> https://culturaieducacio.cat
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Responsable a la Universitat de Girona del Postgrau Interuniversitari
>>>>>> en
>>>>>> Psicologia de l'educació MIPE-DIPE http://mipe.psyed.edu.es/ca
>>>>>
>>>>>
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