[Xmca-l] Re: Passions, (Projects?) and Interests

Fri Jan 11 20:15:11 PST 2019

Seems like yes is the answer to both your questions, Ed.
mike

On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 7:18 PM Edward Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:

> A few thoughts come to mind. For example. (1) are interests always
> affective and (2) it would seem that disinterests also accompany point of
> views.
>
> Ed
>
>
> On Jan 11, 2019, at  6:33 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> Ah, so interests are the affective ingredient that accompanies the point
> of.view?  A subjtive object?
> Mike
>
> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 3:58 PM James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Interests have much to do with intentionality - and there is always a
>> subjective angle from which the object (interests) is viewed - I don't
>> recall coming across Vygotsky alluding to this.
>> To illustrate my point, I use the term "evidentiality" (which in
>> linguistics refers to statements being explicitly marked to show the source
>> of the speaker's information, e.g. "I witnessed this"). It goes without
>> saying that privileged access bears on one's interest (a state of being
>> interested, or an act of taking an interest, in something). Thus, one
>> person's interest is always a "secondary evidential" from another person's
>> viewpoint, in which case another person has to make inference through sense
>> perception, mediated by contextual factors (e.g. interpersonal, ideational
>> and textual).
>>
>> James
>>
>> *_______________________________________________________*
>>
>> *James Ma  Independent Scholar *
>> *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
>> <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>   *
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 16:48, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> So interests are curiosity, Huw?
>>> Didn’t “Psychology of Art” have something to to do with Emotions, David?
>>> 10 Volumes (!) of LSV! Wow.
>>> Mike
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:58 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> For Vygotsky, interests are intentions.  Although he recognises that
>>>> Lewin's structural theory is inadequate with regard to discerning the
>>>> essence of interests, his own writings in that chapter focus upon
>>>> developmental patterns of interests, and he does not get around to being
>>>> explicit about what is behind interest -- what is really driving it. To a
>>>> certain extent this is answered with the social situation of development,
>>>> but unless one reads between the lines there is a great deal of vagueness,
>>>> such as with reference to psychological functions.
>>>>
>>>> I have a rather large theoretical paper I am completing on this to
>>>> compliment some empirical work. What I state is that it is epistemology
>>>> (and ontology) that is the interest behind interest.
>>>>
>>>> Best,
>>>> Huw
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, 11 Jan 2019 at 12:08, Moises Esteban-Guitart <
>>>> moises.esteban@udg.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That's an interesting question that I asked myself when I read
>>>>> EDUCATIONAL
>>>>> PSYCHOLOGY by Vygotsky "from one interest of the child’s to a new
>>>>> interest
>>>>> —that is the rule” (Vygotsky, 1926/1997a, p. 86). My conclusion was
>>>>> that
>>>>> it depends on the biographical moment (see pp. 393 to 396 document
>>>>> attached). By the way, in his "Educational Psychology" he wrote on sex
>>>>> too
>>>>> ("Education on the sex instinct", pp. 71-77), however I didn't explore
>>>>> this.
>>>>> m
>>>>>
>>>>> > David,
>>>>> >
>>>>> > I would imagine the reference to interest relates to the STUDENTS'
>>>>> > interest: meaning that whatever way it is approached it needs to be
>>>>> > introduced from and in relation to the students' current
>>>>> > knowledge/interest/developmental stage as opposed to being imposed
>>>>> in a
>>>>> > decontextualised way.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > At least I think that's what's going on here...
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Julie
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Sorry, Rob. I mean fifteen hours a year. The government has
>>>>> itinerant
>>>>> >> specialists who lecture from school to school. There is even a bus
>>>>> for
>>>>> >> visiting the provinces.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> In contrast, Vygotsky says:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> a) No class with ONLY sex education--since anatomical, sexual, and
>>>>> >> sociocultural maturation do not coincide in modern humans, sex
>>>>> education
>>>>> >> is
>>>>> >> not a science of a natural whole, where the object of study is
>>>>> given to
>>>>> >> us.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> b) No classes WITHOUT sex education--since sex education is simply
>>>>> >> learning
>>>>> >> how to be with people who may be of sexual interest, all classes
>>>>> must
>>>>> >> have
>>>>> >> some form of sexual "enlightenment".
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> c) No sex education without INTEREST. But what, exactly, is
>>>>> interest?
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> David Kellogg
>>>>> >> Sangmyung University
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> New in *Language and Literature*, co-authored with Fang Li:
>>>>> >> Mountains in labour: Eliot’s ‘Atrocities’ and Woolf’s
>>>>> >> alternatives
>>>>> >> Show all authors
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> https://doi.org/10.1177/0963947018805660
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Fri, Jan 11, 2019 at 5:40 PM robsub@ariadne.org.uk
>>>>> >> <robsub@ariadne.org.uk>
>>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Fifteen hours a week???
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> I hope it's not all practicals - the teachers would be exhausted.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> In the UK nowadays the very inadequate thing we do in schools is
>>>>> called
>>>>> >>> Sex and Relationship Education. The "and Relationship" bit was
>>>>> tacked
>>>>> >>> on
>>>>> >>> some time in the 90s or maybe early 2000s, if I recall rightly.
>>>>> They
>>>>> >>> missed
>>>>> >>> a trick there - they should have put it the other way round
>>>>> >>> "Relationship
>>>>> >>> and Sex Education". A very large lump of the population go into a
>>>>> >>> tabloid
>>>>> >>> induced panic as soon as they hear the word "sex", especially when
>>>>> >>> related
>>>>> >>> to children, and then fail to hear the "and relationship" it.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Rob
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On 11/01/2019 07:14, David Kellogg wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Last July in Geneva, I got into a bit of a tiff with my hosts over
>>>>> >>> whether
>>>>> >>> or not Vygotsky had a theory of emotion. The commonplace position,
>>>>> >>> taken
>>>>> >>> by
>>>>> >>> almost all high Vygotskyans including my francophone friends, is
>>>>> that
>>>>> >>> Vygotsky spent too much of his life developing a theory of
>>>>> thinking and
>>>>> >>> intellect, complexes and concept formation, and when he turned his
>>>>> >>> attention to the lower and higher emotions, that dark side of the
>>>>> moon,
>>>>> >>> it
>>>>> >>> was too late. He worked out a kind of prolegomena, in the form of
>>>>> >>> "Teaching
>>>>> >>> on the Emotions" (or "Study of the Emotions" or perhaps "The
>>>>> Doctrine
>>>>> >>> of
>>>>> >>> the Emotions"--you can read what he did in Volume 6 of the
>>>>> Collected
>>>>> >>> Works). And the rest was silence.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Here in Korea we are bringing out our tenth volume of Vygotsky's
>>>>> works
>>>>> >>> (see attached cover, with blurbs from Renee Van der Veer and Irina
>>>>> >>> Leopoldoff-Martin). It's all about sex education, which is a very
>>>>> >>> important
>>>>> >>> topic here in Korea, because we have fifteen hours of sex
>>>>> education a
>>>>> >>> week
>>>>> >>> mandated by the government, but the ministry of education has more
>>>>> or
>>>>> >>> less
>>>>> >>> withdrawn the downloadable materials for this, not for the usual
>>>>> >>> reasons
>>>>> >>> but instead because of criticism from Human Rights Watch (it is
>>>>> >>> terribly
>>>>> >>> sexist, homophobic, and just plain ignorant).
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Vygosky's view is that sex education (which he calls "sexual
>>>>> >>> enlightenment") has to be integrated into ALL subjects (so for
>>>>> example
>>>>> >>> the
>>>>> >>> test of a good sex enlightenment programme would be one that
>>>>> ensures
>>>>> >>> equal
>>>>> >>> participation of boys and girls in math and physics), it has to
>>>>> start
>>>>> >>> as
>>>>> >>> soon as preschoolers enter primary school, and it has to be
>>>>> >>> INTERESTING.
>>>>> >>> In
>>>>> >>> other words, instead of the "sex education without sex" programme
>>>>> we
>>>>> >>> have
>>>>> >>> here in South Korea, we need non-sex education...but with a good
>>>>> deal
>>>>> >>> of
>>>>> >>> sex.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> All of which has got me thinking about the problem my Geneva
>>>>> friends
>>>>> >>> set
>>>>> >>> before me. I think that Vygotsky really DOES have a theory that
>>>>> unites
>>>>> >>> passions and interests. It's like that book by Hirschmann on how
>>>>> the
>>>>> >>> unity
>>>>> >>> of passion and interest gave rise to capitalism, but instead it is
>>>>> all
>>>>> >>> about how passions, shared projects, and interests give rise to
>>>>> sexual
>>>>> >>> love, and it is more or less right before we would expect to find
>>>>> it:
>>>>> >>> in
>>>>> >>> the Pedology of the Adolescent, right before the chapter on concept
>>>>> >>> formation, which shows how complexes (which are categories for
>>>>> others)
>>>>> >>> become concepts (categories for themselves). This is the chapter on
>>>>> >>> interests, which explains how passions (which are sensations in
>>>>> >>> themselves)
>>>>> >>> become interests: that is, emotions for themselves. (There is
>>>>> already a
>>>>> >>> passable translation of this in Volume Five of the CW). The only
>>>>> thing
>>>>> >>> is
>>>>> >>> there is a need for a transitional form--a feeling with others.
>>>>> Andy's
>>>>> >>> idea
>>>>> >>> of the Project?
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> David Kellogg
>>>>> >>> Sangmyung University
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> New in *Language and Literature*, co-authored with Fang Li:
>>>>> >>> Mountains in labour: Eliot’s ‘Atrocities’ and Woolf’s
>>>>> >>> alternatives
>>>>> >>> Show all authors
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> https://doi.org/10.1177/0963947018805660
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Dra. Julie Waddington
>>>>> > Departament de Didàctiques Específiques
>>>>> > Facultat d'Educació i Psicologia
>>>>> > Universitat de Girona
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Moisès Esteban Guitart
>>>>> Dpt de psicologia
>>>>> Director - Institut de Recerca Educativa -
>>>>> Facultat d'Educació i Psicologia
>>>>> Universitat de Girona
>>>>>
>>>>> Grup de recerca "Cultura i Educació" (GRC  2017SGR19)
>>>>> https://culturaieducacio.cat
>>>>>
>>>>> Responsable a la Universitat de Girona del Postgrau Interuniversitari
>>>>> en
>>>>> Psicologia de l'educació MIPE-DIPE http://mipe.psyed.edu.es/ca
>>>>
>>>>
>
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