[Xmca-l] Re: Kollontai

Thu Oct 25 01:42:46 PDT 2018

The first seemingly innocuous concern is with the labelling of descriptive
research as "qualitative".

The second more egregious concern is the narrowing of so-called
"quantitative" studies to being "non-qualitative" and being primarily
concerned with established technical procedures.

The third egregious concern is the treatment of these two "methods" as if
they encompassed the near entirety of research methods.

The fourth concern is that the relabelling, reframing, and re-scoping of
descriptive research approaches and narrowly conceived "quantitative"
approaches establish a de-facto non-interpretation of quality. Quality is
not actually explicitly addressed!

The fifth concern is that the avoiding of quality maintains an ignorance of
systemic forms of understanding, which yield insights into complex
phenomena such as the interest in developmental phenomena. This, by the
way, means that attention to complex social processes are obstructed in
society, because of the lack of a "narrative basis" for engaging into the
issues.

The use of phrases like "both methods" as if they jointly subsumed all
methods adds support to this stupid formulation, "qualitative and
quantitative", that dominates social studies in universities and obstructs
insights into the phenomena.

Huw

On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 23:53, Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:

> I was going to say that every approach both obscures and reveals. But Mike
> said it first...
>
> Martin
>
>
> On Oct 24, 2018, at 5:11 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> Luria liked to say that the object of scientific research is to see an
> object from as many sides as possible, an idea that has always applied for
> me with respect to my own research that affords both kinds of analysis
> simultaneously.  An example would be in *The Psychology of Literacy, *where
> we were tasked with answering the question, "what are the psychological
> consequences of becoming literate?" Three, arguably four literacies in a
> single population at a single point in history. Without a year of on the
> ground ethnography joined in a second year by a use of survey accumulated
> from a variety of sources, a third year of continued survey collection and
> conduct of some targeted experimental-psychological-style research
> motivated by the ethnography and survey results, a fourth year of
> collecting data based on the idea that in experiments, one should design
> one's experiment as models of cultural practices, not models of
> school-based practices.
>
> Multiple regression on quantifiable data provided a lot of good
> information about how to dig deeper into what was giving rise to the
> numbers. And its great having the experience of doing all that
> (once) fancy arithmetic because because its so fungible. I ended up
> thinking of the use of multiple  regression as "hermeneutic regression
> anlysis. "-)
>
> Now the results and our arguments may seem like so much flim flam today.
> After all, its ancient history. But in the process of the doing, from
> thinking about the problem in the first place, to hiring people with the
> requisite expertise to participate, to designing models of cultural
> practices, we always found that looking at the phenomena from a number of
> different perspectives simultaneously a great tool of thought.
>
> At XMCA we may be wrong, but there is not a single stupid person to be
> found here but a lot of smart people who have something to learn from each
> other. Something like what we tell our students the first days of lectures:
> "There are no dumb questions here."
>
> Right?
> mike
>
>
> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 2:30 PM Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>
>> I’m not sure what the “it” is, Huw. My way of thinking? My writing?  :)
>>
>> You’re suggesting, perhaps, that quality is more basic than quantity?
>> Hopefully you’re not reverting to the view that “qualia” are the basic
>> elements of experience?
>>
>> But I’m just making guesses about what it is you want to communicate. A
>> bit stupefied, it’s true.
>>
>> Martin
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 3:50 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> It perpetuates a stupefaction. It obscures what quality is.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 17:40, Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net> wrote:
>>
>>> I don’t think I’d say that there are “qualitative issues,” Huw. The way
>>> I think about it, there are simply “issues,” and these can be grasped using
>>> a qualitative approach or using a quantitative approach (or both). Although
>>> my own writing has been oriented to understanding and explaining
>>> qualitative research, I don’t underestimate the power and usefulness of
>>> quantitative research. One simply has to know what it is one is counting.
>>>
>>> Martin
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 10:07 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Yes, "than". Whoever heard of a good paper that doesn't take qualitative
>>> issues as primary?
>>>
>>> Huw
>>>
>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 15:52, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I think that was just a typo — “that” for “than.”
>>>>
>>>> H
>>>>
>>>> Helena Worthen
>>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com
>>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745
>>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam:
>>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com
>>>> skype: helena.worthen1
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Oct 24, 2018, at 10:46 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  I thought the announcement was completely relevant Elizabeth    There
>>>> are many fine scholars in this discussion group who could qualify for those
>>>> awards and letting them know was generous on your part
>>>> Just my 2 pence
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 7:24 AM Dr. Elizabeth Fein <feine@duq.edu>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Hi all - Sorry if that announcement was irrelevant. We're trying to
>>>>> cast a wide net with these awards, reaching scholars who may be doing
>>>>> psychology in a way that may not fall within the APA mainstream but
>>>>> deserves to be recognized within APA. Although I'm writing as a member of
>>>>> the qualitative sub-division, we include both sets of awards out of respect
>>>>> for our division-mates. I'll refrain from sending these in the future.
>>>>> Best,
>>>>> Elizabeth
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Oct 24, 2018 at 10:16 AM Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Sounds more on topic that a request for nominations for "qualitative"
>>>>>> and "quantitative" methods.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> According to this source
>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Flibcom.org%2Ffiles%2FThe%2520Workers%27%2520Opposition%2520-%2520Alexandra%2520Kollontai.pdf&data=02%7C01%7Cfeine%40duq.edu%7C45e088e131ab41b9a81108d639bb3925%7C12c44311cf844e4195c38df690b1eb61%7C0%7C0%7C636759873622647356&sdata=D2FAuJB7QyA93j6e%2FFyosEctmHut9pFEqabpGZOfPU0%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>> it was first published in Pravda, January 25 1921. There appear to be many
>>>>>> Pravda archives available online, affiliated with libraries etc. The New
>>>>>> York Public Library appears to have a full archive, although it requires a
>>>>>> library card/login for access.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>> Huw
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, 24 Oct 2018 at 13:41, Andy Blunden <andyb@marxists.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This is very off-topic, for which I apologise.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Does anyone have access to a copy of Alexandra Kollontai's "The
>>>>>>> Workers Opposition" in Russian?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Andy
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> Andy Blunden
>>>>>>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>>>>>>> <https://na01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.ethicalpolitics.org%2Fablunden%2Findex.htm&data=02%7C01%7Cfeine%40duq.edu%7C45e088e131ab41b9a81108d639bb3925%7C12c44311cf844e4195c38df690b1eb61%7C0%7C0%7C636759873622647356&sdata=9st82nYCh4D1nw%2FaalsWJLsPVnkjMlvYC4fwiGTEhhw%3D&reserved=0>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Elizabeth Fein, Ph.D.
>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>> Department of Psychology
>>>>> Duquesne University
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> Martin
>>
>> *"I may say that whenever I meet Mrs. Seligman or Dr. Lowie or discuss
>> matters with Radcliffe-Brown or Kroeber, I become at once aware that my
>> partner does not understand anything in the matter, and I end usually with
>> the feeling that this also applies to myself” (Malinowski, 1930)*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
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