[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: What is science?: Where to start doctoral students?

Andy Blunden andyb@marxists.org
Mon Nov 5 00:31:32 PST 2018


Yes, CLR James brings a very unique reading to Hegel's
Logic. I have transcribed only excerpts from it:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/james-clr/works/dialecti/index.htm

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 5/11/2018 7:14 PM, WEBSTER, DAVID S. wrote:
>
> Along with Dunayevskaya we must put C L R James’s Notes on
> Dialectics: Hegel Marx Lenin. James and Dunayevskaya were
> of course the mainstay of the ‘Johnston Forest’
> Tendency(?) They broke from Trotsky in support of the
> State Capitalist v Workers State understanding of the
> USSR. Notes on Dialectics is in part a commentary on Lenin
> on Hegel
>
>  
>
> *From:*xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> *On Behalf Of *Andy Blunden
> *Sent:* 04 November 2018 02:02
> *To:* xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: What is science?: Where
> to start doctoral students?
>
>  
>
> Yes, Martin, Marx and Hegel can both be counted as
> Aristotleans, though self-evidently only "in a certain
> way." Hegel was so much an admirer of Aristotle that
> Aristotle is the only great philosopher who is not pinned
> at a certain finite point in the "unfolding of the Idea"
> in Hegel's History of Philosophy, and at the completion of
> the Encyclopedia of the Philosophical Sciences, when it
> comes full circle to a fully reconstructed Being, Hegel
> merely quotes a passage from Aristotle in the original
> Greek, without translation!
>
> The restoration of Hegel to his proper place in Marxism
> was begun by Lenin in 1914:
>
>     “It is impossible completely to understand
>     Marx's /Capital/, and especially its first chapter,
>     without having thoroughly studied and understood
>     the /whole/ of Hegel's /Logic/. Consequently, half a
>     century later none of the Marxists understood Marx!!
>     <https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/cons-logic/ch03.htm#LCW38_180a>”
>     https://www.marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/cons-logic/ch03.htm#LCW38_180a
>
> and continued via Korsch and Lukacs, the early Frankfurt
> School and Dunayevskaya. It was given a particular boost
> with the emergence of "Marxist Humanism" (in opposition to
> Althusser's structuralism and the East European Stalinist
> bureaucracies) from Eastern Europe in the 1960s.
>
> The origins of Marx's philosophical (not political) views
> in Hegel is now a commonplace which only the blind do not
> see (if they bother to look).
>
> Andy
>
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
> On 4/11/2018 3:01 AM, Martin Packer wrote:
>
>     Andy, thinking about your question I went aGooglin’
>     and discovered that Carol Gould’s book is available
>     online:
>
>      
>
>     Gould, C. C. (1978). /Marx’s social ontology:
>     Individuality and community in Marx’s theory of social
>     relations/. Cambridge, MA: MIT Press.
>
>      
>
>     <https://philarchive.org/archive/GOUMSO-3>
>
>      
>
>     I hadn’t noticed when first reading this book that
>     Gould credits Marx Wartofsky for his help developing
>     the theoretical framework. The book defends five
>     theses; she summarizes the first two as follows:
>
>     My first thesis is that Marx uses Hegel's dialectical
>     logic both as a method of inquiry and as a logic of
>     history. That is, not only is Marx's analysis ordered
>     in accordance with a Hegelian dialectic, but the
>     actual dcvelopment of historical stages itself is seen
>     to have such a dialectical form.!Thus, on the one
>     hand, Marx derives the specific structure and
>     development of social forms from the concepts of these
>     forms, but, on the other hand, he sees this derivation
>     as possible because the concepts are themselves
>     abstracted from the concrete social developmenL,
>
>     My second thesis is that in construing Hegel's logic
>     of concepts also as a logic of social reality, Marx
>     becomes an Aristotelian. He holds that it is real,
>     concretely existing individuals who constitute this
>     social reality by their activity. 
>
>     Martin
>
>      
>
>      
>
>
>
>         On Nov 2, 2018, at 10:17 PM, Andy Blunden
>         <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>>
>         wrote:
>
>          
>
>         I think it would be more true to say that in
>         Marx's day "Ontology" was only used in the
>         non-countable form; the countable (i.e. plural)
>         form of "Ontology" is a product I think of the
>         second half of the 20th Century. Martin? can you
>         pinpoint it? I think that Marx agreed with Hegel's
>         reduction of Ontology to Logic, though he also had
>         differences over Hegel's formulation of it - the
>         famous "Method of Political Economy" passage which
>         CHAT people like to quote, explains it. Hegel's
>         "Ontology" (/Die Lehre vom Sein/) is usually
>         translated into English as "The Doctrine of
>         Being." Hegel's reduction of Ontology to Logic is
>         explained in the Preface to the /Phenomenology/,
>         already mentioned, and implemented in the first
>         book of the Logic.
>
>         Andy
>
>         ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>         Andy Blunden
>         http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
>         On 3/11/2018 3:28 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>
>             I sent the following message off-line to Beth.
>             I'll send it here without the attachments just
>             in case someone is watching... 
>
>             They should be publicly accessible.
>
>             (and funny that Wagner also happened across
>             the same book that I did, behold the power of
>             Google!).
>
>              
>
>             Wagner, simple story with ontology, in
>             anthropology at least, is that it has been
>             pluralized so that people now speak of
>             different ontologies. Science is just one of
>             them. In many ways this is anti-Marxist since
>             Marx imagined just one ontology (and science
>             was going to get to the bottom of it!), but
>             I'd like to think that this move isn't
>             entirely irreconcilable with all readings of Marx.
>
>              
>
>             -greg
>
>              
>
>             ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>             From: *Greg Thompson*
>             <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
>             <mailto:greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>>
>             Date: Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM
>             Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: What is science?:
>             Where to start doctoral students?
>             To: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com
>             <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
>
>              
>
>             Beth,
>
>              
>
>             This may be more than you bargained for but
>             Latour has been doing some interesting
>             thinking/writing on this issue, reported
>             secondarily here:
>
>             https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/magazine/bruno-latour-post-truth-philosopher-science.html
>
>              
>
>             I have also attached his essay Why has
>             critique run out of steam? (as well as the
>             intro from Pandora's Hope "Do you believe in
>             reality?") which was an early articulation of
>             this particular (re)articulation of his position.
>
>              
>
>             Goodwin's Professional Vision also comes to
>             mind (also attached).
>
>              
>
>             And for kicks, I just googled your question
>             and found this book that really seems to be a
>             very smart approach:
>
>             https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=s13tBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=what+is+science%3F&ots=hG7y6xF0gy&sig=DNMs__6vnoZUvXbOelWC8DcL4ns#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20science%3F&f=false
>
>              
>
>             I was thinking of "rigorous storytelling" as
>             one answer to your question. I googled and
>             found that I've already been outdone - Susan
>             Porter has "triple-rigorous storytelling"
>             based on her work with food justice. Might be
>             of interest depending on your students' projects:
>
>             https://www.foodsystemsjournal.org/index.php/fsj/article/view/fd-triple
>
>              
>
>             Best of luck!
>
>             -greg
>
>              
>
>              
>
>              
>
>             On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:33 AM Beth Ferholt
>             <bferholt@gmail.com
>             <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                 Great. Kuhn and Thinking and Speech are
>                 two of the few things on my list already
>                 and I’ll start reading the other two,
>                 sensible or no, now! Thanks so much, Beth
>
>                 On Thursday, November 1, 2018, Andy
>                 Blunden <andyb@marxists.org
>                 <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>
>                     Beth, much as a part of me would like
>                     to recommend the Preface to Hegel's
>                     Phenomenology, being sensible I would
>                     still recommend:
>
>                      1. The first chapter of Thinking and
>                         Speech
>                         https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/ch01.htm
>                      2. Marx's Method of Political Economy
>                         https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm#loc3
>                      3. And they should read Thomas Kuhn's
>                         Structure of Scientific Revolutions
>                         https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/kuhn.htm
>
>                     Who knows? You might be fostering an
>                     original thinker?
>                     Andy
>
>                     ------------------------------------------------------------
>
>                     Andy Blunden
>                     http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>
>
>                     On 1/11/2018 11:43 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
>
>                         On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:09 AM
>                         Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com
>                         <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>                                         I'm starting to
>                                         take the role of
>                                         advisor on
>                                         doctoral
>                                         dissertations and
>                                         wonder how best to
>                                         begin to discuss
>                                         "what is science?"
>                                         with students who
>                                         will need to
>                                         respond concisely
>                                         when asked about
>                                         the rigor and
>                                         reliability of
>                                         their formative
>                                         intervention,
>                                         narrative and/or
>                                         autobiographical
>                                         studies.
>
>                                          
>
>                                         I'm looking for an
>                                         overview or paper
>                                         that does more
>                                         than argue the
>                                         value of one
>                                         approach --
>                                         something to start
>                                         them off thinking
>                                         about the issues,
>                                         not immerse them
>                                         in one perspective
>                                         quite yet.
>
>                                          
>
>                                         If not an overview
>                                         then maybe a paper
>                                         that
>                                         contextualizes
>                                         "rigor" and
>                                         "reliability". 
>
>                                          
>
>                                         Obviously this is
>                                         an endless topic
>                                         but do some people
>                                         reading XMCA have
>                                         some favorite
>                                         papers that they
>                                         give to their
>                                         advisees or use
>                                         when they teach a
>                                         methods class?
>
>                                          
>
>                                         Thanks!
>
>                                         Beth
>                                         -- 
>
>                                         Beth Ferholt
>                                         Associate
>                                         Professor, Department
>                                         of Early Childhood
>                                         and Art Education;
>
>                                         Affiliated
>                                         Faculty, CUNY
>                                         Graduate Center
>
>                                         Brooklyn College,
>                                         City University of
>                                         New York
>                                         2900 Bedford
>                                         Avenue
>                                         <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>
>                                         Brooklyn, NY 11210
>                                         <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>-2889
>
>                                         Email:
>                                         bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>                                         <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>                                         Phone: (718) 951-5205
>                                         Fax: (718) 951-4816
>
>
>                                  
>
>                                  
>
>                      
>
>
>
>                 -- 
>
>                 Beth Ferholt
>                 Associate Professor, Department of Early
>                 Childhood and Art Education;
>
>                 Affiliated Faculty, CUNY Graduate Center
>
>                 Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>                 2900 Bedford Avenue
>                 Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
>                 Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>                 <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>                 Phone: (718) 951-5205
>                 Fax: (718) 951-4816
>
>                  
>
>
>              
>
>             -- 
>
>             Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>
>             Assistant Professor
>
>             Department of Anthropology
>
>             880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>
>             Brigham Young University
>
>             Provo, UT 84602
>
>             WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>             <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu/> 
>             http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
>
>              
>
>             -- 
>
>             Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>
>             Assistant Professor
>
>             Department of Anthropology
>
>             880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>
>             Brigham Young University
>
>             Provo, UT 84602
>
>             WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>             <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu/> 
>             http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
>          
>
>      
>
>  
>

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