[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: Re: What is science?: Where to start doctoral students?
Andy Blunden
andyb@marxists.org
Sat Nov 3 18:08:47 PDT 2018
Haydi, that Marx obeyed a great philosophical debt to Hegel
and based the structure of his /Capital/ on Hegel's Logic is
very well documented nowadays and I say what I say with very
thorough knowledge of both writers. I think the issue may be
best dealt with by helping to clarify the meaning of
"idealism". See my article: "In what sense was Hegel an
Idealist?" - which deals with the relation between Marx and
Engels succinctly.
https://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Hegel-idealist.pdf
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 4/11/2018 2:53 AM, Haydi Zulfei wrote:
> Hi Andy,
> I think Marx and Engels both ridicule Hegel's reduction of
> "Ontology" to "Logic". And theirs was not a matter of
> "formulation" , rather , a matter of a Philosopher's state
> of thinking while he has his head stuck to soil shying the
> air away of him under strict pressure :-) needing to be
> upheld erect again so that the head retrieves his
> capability of ordinary thinking.
>
> Hegel's "Ontology" (/Die Lehre vom Sein/) is usually
> translated into English as "The Doctrine of Being." yes ,
> but of "Being of the Idea" self-generating (suis generis)
> counterpart of Nothing co-existing with it on the very
> instant leaving no space for any creation other than his
> governing the whole universe divinely looking down on the
> Material World as having been alienated from him relapsed
> into his warm bosom if desired to find Originality
> provided averts materiality.
>
> If we take "ontology" as the Being of any phenomena and
> thoughts and and ideas and ideals and even fantasies and
> imaginary creatures and speculations , won't you think we
> get involved in vicious circles , any sublations and
> derivations as new existences , any leaps and bounds as
> newer and newer qualities as new existences? Then what
> becomes of Dualism and Pluralism and the one single matter
> in motion?
>
> Thought has its origin in reality but is not one with it.
>
> Can we generalize "what exists in mind" as what ARE? Take
> onto mind Condition and the Conditioned. Greg's first
> statement sounds well!
>
> Marx says : Science is the Product of Practical Activity
> 1844 Manuscripts.
>
> Please see the attached.
>
> Best regards
>
> Haydi
>
> On Saturday, November 3, 2018, 6:49:37 AM GMT+3:30, Andy
> Blunden <andyb@marxists.org> wrote:
>
>
> I think it would be more true to say that in Marx's day
> "Ontology" was only used in the non-countable form; the
> countable (i.e. plural) form of "Ontology" is a product I
> think of the second half of the 20th Century. Martin? can
> you pinpoint it? I think that Marx agreed with Hegel's
> reduction of Ontology to Logic, though he also had
> differences over Hegel's formulation of it - the famous
> "Method of Political Economy" passage which CHAT people
> like to quote, explains it. Hegel's "Ontology" (/Die Lehre
> vom Sein/) is usually translated into English as "The
> Doctrine of Being." Hegel's reduction of Ontology to Logic
> is explained in the Preface to the /Phenomenology/,
> already mentioned, and implemented in the first book of
> the Logic.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> On 3/11/2018 3:28 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>> I sent the following message off-line to Beth. I'll send
>> it here without the attachments just in case someone is
>> watching...
>> They should be publicly accessible.
>> (and funny that Wagner also happened across the same book
>> that I did, behold the power of Google!).
>>
>> Wagner, simple story with ontology, in anthropology at
>> least, is that it has been pluralized so that people now
>> speak of different ontologies. Science is just one of
>> them. In many ways this is anti-Marxist since Marx
>> imagined just one ontology (and science was going to get
>> to the bottom of it!), but I'd like to think that this
>> move isn't entirely irreconcilable with all readings of Marx.
>>
>> -greg
>>
>> ---------- Forwarded message ---------
>> From: *Greg Thompson* <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
>> <mailto:greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>>
>> Date: Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 2:40 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: What is science?: Where to
>> start doctoral students?
>> To: Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com
>> <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
>>
>> Beth,
>>
>> This may be more than you bargained for but Latour has
>> been doing some interesting thinking/writing on this
>> issue, reported secondarily here:
>> https://www.nytimes.com/2018/10/25/magazine/bruno-latour-post-truth-philosopher-science.html
>>
>> I have also attached his essay Why has critique run out
>> of steam? (as well as the intro from Pandora's Hope "Do
>> you believe in reality?") which was an early articulation
>> of this particular (re)articulation of his position.
>>
>> Goodwin's Professional Vision also comes to mind (also
>> attached).
>>
>> And for kicks, I just googled your question and found
>> this book that really seems to be a very smart approach:
>> https://books.google.com/books?hl=en&lr=&id=s13tBAAAQBAJ&oi=fnd&pg=PP1&dq=what+is+science%3F&ots=hG7y6xF0gy&sig=DNMs__6vnoZUvXbOelWC8DcL4ns#v=onepage&q=what%20is%20science%3F&f=false
>>
>> I was thinking of "rigorous storytelling" as one answer
>> to your question. I googled and found that I've already
>> been outdone - Susan Porter has "triple-rigorous
>> storytelling" based on her work with food justice. Might
>> be of interest depending on your students' projects:
>> https://www.foodsystemsjournal.org/index.php/fsj/article/view/fd-triple
>>
>> Best of luck!
>> -greg
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Nov 1, 2018 at 9:33 AM Beth Ferholt
>> <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Great. Kuhn and Thinking and Speech are two of the
>> few things on my list already and I’ll start reading
>> the other two, sensible or no, now! Thanks so much, Beth
>>
>> On Thursday, November 1, 2018, Andy Blunden
>> <andyb@marxists.org <mailto:andyb@marxists.org>> wrote:
>>
>> Beth, much as a part of me would like to
>> recommend the Preface to Hegel's Phenomenology,
>> being sensible I would still recommend:
>>
>> 1. The first chapter of Thinking and Speech
>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/vygotsky/works/words/ch01.htm
>> 2. Marx's Method of Political Economy
>> https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1857/grundrisse/ch01.htm#loc3
>> 3. And they should read Thomas Kuhn's Structure
>> of Scientific Revolutions
>> https://www.marxists.org/reference/subject/philosophy/works/us/kuhn.htm
>>
>> Who knows? You might be fostering an original
>> thinker?
>> Andy
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
>> On 1/11/2018 11:43 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
>>> On Wed, Oct 31, 2018 at 10:09 AM Beth Ferholt
>>> <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> I'm starting to take the role of
>>> advisor on doctoral
>>> dissertations and wonder how
>>> best to begin to discuss "what
>>> is science?" with students who
>>> will need to respond concisely
>>> when asked about the rigor and
>>> reliability of their formative
>>> intervention, narrative and/or
>>> autobiographical studies.
>>>
>>> I'm looking for an overview or
>>> paper that does more than argue
>>> the value of one approach --
>>> something to start them off
>>> thinking about the issues, not
>>> immerse them in one perspective
>>> quite yet.
>>>
>>> If not an overview then maybe a
>>> paper that contextualizes
>>> "rigor" and "reliability".
>>>
>>> Obviously this is an endless
>>> topic but do some people reading
>>> XMCA have some favorite papers
>>> that they give to their advisees
>>> or use when they teach a methods
>>> class?
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> Beth
>>> --
>>> Beth Ferholt
>>> Associate Professor, Department
>>> of Early Childhood and Art
>>> Education;
>>> Affiliated Faculty, CUNY
>>> Graduate Center
>>> Brooklyn College, City
>>> University of New York
>>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>
>>> Brooklyn, NY 11210
>>> <https://maps.google.com/?q=2900+Bedford+Avenue+Brooklyn,+NY+11210&entry=gmail&source=g>-2889
>>>
>>> Email:
>>> bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>>> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Beth Ferholt
>> Associate Professor, Department of Early Childhood
>> and Art Education;
>> Affiliated Faculty, CUNY Graduate Center
>> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>>
>> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
>> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
>> <http://greg.a.thompson.byu.edu>
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
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