[Xmca-l] Re: English translation of Pedology of the Adolescent

[Andy Blunden]

I heartily endorse the sentiment of the main body of your
message, Francine. Even the "Primitive man, ...." which was
deliberately excluded from the CW and contains definite
errors, is also wonderfully rich and original in other
respects. Vygotsky is one of those rare creatures who, in
his short life produced not one, not two, not three but
maybe even four original scientific theories. :)


In relation to "mental tools" I accept that this is, in
itself, a perfectly valid idea. But I would prefer it not be
used in discussion about Vygotsky because it sets up a
barrier to understanding Vygotsky's ideas about tools and signs.


Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
On 3/06/2018 10:38 PM, Larry Smolucha wrote:
>
> Message from Francine:
>
>
> Regarding tools of the mind (to use Budrova and Leong's
> terminology), there are two aspects of tools that haven't
> been acknowledged in this discussion.
>
>
> First: The concept of  'mental tools' is not literally the
> same as a manual tool used on an object, it can be used
> metaphorically or as a broader category of 'tool-usage.'
>
>
> Second: Tools and tool usage can be co-constructed during
> play or work activities.
>
> Tools (and their usage) are not always predetermined
> cultural artifacts. The proper usage of a work tool such
> as a pair of pliers can be taught in a shop class, but
> this doesn't rule out improvised use of the pliers in a
> new creative way.
>
>
> There is an unfortunate meta-narrative that has
> accompanied previous new publications on Vygotsky's
> theories that puts forth the new text as 'the' new correct
> view of Vygotsky's works. Every new text is an opportunity
> to raise new questions and open up avenues of research.
> Instead the new text is too often promoted as the
> definitive text that supercedes previous interpretations
> of Vygotsky's theory. It is ironic that David takes issue
> with Norris Minick's divisions of the development of
> Vygotsky's thinking in Volume One of the CW in English. I
> disagreed with Minick when he was first advocating that
> Vygotsky's real theory was to be found in Vygoysky's
> writings from 1932-1934 and that Vygotsky's earlier works
> were of no importance [during a graduate seminar at the
> University of Chicago in January 1987]. More recently
> Yasnitsky (2016) has presented the new authoritative
> 'revisionist' Vygotsky theory.
>
>
> In spite of these attempts to impose a new authoritative
> revision of Vygotsky's theory,
>
> individual practitioners and researchers continue to
> advance the field with what some 'experts' regard as
> misunderstandings.
>
>
> As David and his colleagues continue their ground breaking
> work of translating yet another Vygotsky text, this could
> open up a new productive dialogue that would carry on
> through the 21st century. What will Vygotsky's theory look
> like at mid-century or in the late 21st century? Will it
> have fallen on the wayside or thrive?
>
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *From:* xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Huw Lloyd
> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Friday, June 1, 2018 10:10 PM
> *To:* eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> *Subject:* [Xmca-l] Re: English translation of Pedology of
> the Adolescent
>  
> Much more than this, David. Consider the number of people
> that think Vygotsky is concerned with "mental tools" and
> that this constitutes development.
>
> On 2 June 2018 at 00:26, David Kellogg
> <dkellogg60@gmail.com <mailto:dkellogg60@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>     Yes, someone on this list once remarked that a pencil
>     has in coded form the history, the function, and even
>     the structure of writing. So a pencil is composed of
>     wood and graphite in one historical period and steel
>     and lead in another; a pencil has the function of
>     marking paper without marking the fingers, and both
>     functions are realized by the structural relationship
>     of the paper-marking element to the covering material.
>
>     But I think the key word here is "coded"--the
>     first encoding is only accessible to the historian,
>     the second to the engineer, and the third is
>     accessible, but ulitmately accidental, in the child's
>     own writing. But learning the practice of writing
>     is learning a form of knowing, of knowing written
>     speech: it's not a form of decoding the history,
>     structure and function of pencils. In East Asia we
>     went from bamboo brushes to cell phones with only a
>     generation or two at the pencil stage. In learning how
>     literacy is taught, it's probably more useful to
>     listen to what teachers say than it is to look at what
>     they give the children; it is here that the essential
>     knowledge is laid out in its uncoded form.
>
>     My wife's experience of pencils at school was very
>     different from that of her brother: he was the eldest
>     son and got new pencils, while the first time my wife
>     ever used a pencil longer than a stub of a few
>     centimeters she was already in college. Her attitude
>     towards new pencils is still almost reverent as a
>     result, but I don't think it has had much effect on
>     the way she writes. The post-it notes she has left me
>     on this computer seem quite irreverent (particularly
>     with regard to my memory capacity).
>
>     dk  
>
>     David Kellogg
>     Sangmyung University
>
>     New Book with the Seoul Vygotsky Community
>
>     Volume 1 of "Pedology of the Adolescent", 분열과 사랑 (in
>     the Korean language)
>
>     http://www.aladin.co.kr/shop/wproduct.aspx?ItemId=148240197
>     <http://www.aladin.co.kr/shop/wproduct.aspx?ItemId=148240197>
>             
>
>     On Sat, Jun 2, 2018 at 5:03 AM, Huw Lloyd
>     <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
>     <mailto:huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
>         Item c in David's enumeration makes an appearance
>         in volume 4, p. 60-63. The hankering after "mental
>         tools", in my opinion, is a major misapprehension
>         by students of Vygotsky. It confuses development
>         of the epistemological basis of knowing and
>         activity with the notion of being given a tool!
>         This, in turn, decouples (or ignores) the
>         necessity for practices to embody epistemological
>         forms of knowing from cultural participation.
>         Culture then becomes some arbitrary set of
>         practices that one is indoctrinated into,
>         completely ignoring the necessity for the
>         development in ways of knowing. Maybe the full
>         pedology volume will help to rectify this.
>
>         Best,
>         Huw
>
>         On 1 June 2018 at 01:21, Martin Packer
>         <mpacker@cantab.net <mailto:mpacker@cantab.net>>
>         wrote:
>
>             I’m holding my breath...!  :)
>
>             Martin
>
>
>>             On May 30, 2018, at 11:04 PM, Larry Smolucha
>>             <lsmolucha@hotmail.com
>>             <mailto:lsmolucha@hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>             Message from Francine:
>>
>>             David thank you for the exposition on how 
>>             the /Pedology of the Adolescent/ has come
>>             down to us over the years. It should be
>>             available in English for its centennial (2031).
>>
>>
>>                 ---George Eliot
>>
>
>
>
>

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