[Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship

[mike cole]

Some fare better than others in the system that Greg points us to. The
phrase that all that's solid turns into air comes to mind.

There is certainly something to slow science. I believe that Jean Lave
initiated such a center
a few years ago at Berkeley, although I am not sure of its current status.

mike


On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:33 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

> Greg, not all people will think being publishing machines. Some, like
> myself, enjoy spending many hours a day writing, analyzing etc. and turning
> all of this into peer-reviewed articles.
>
> I referred to my earliest experience before, when I was told I would not
> make tenure; and I felt I would not be able to make the 2 articles or so
> per year in high quality journals.
>
> But after an absence from academia, it changed. I started doing research
> for myself initially, and then wrote it up. From then on, it was different,
> writing was something I wanted to do, and the more I did, the better I got
> at it. (Not that the peer-review process would have gotten easier.)
>
> I do admit, though, that the system as set up right now then tends to
> reward people who publish more than others, and in "better" journals.
>
> And it depends on context. In the department that I am affiliated with,
> there are people promoted and tenured without at least a handful of
> articles in commonly recognized journals. And if you are happy with an
> average increase in your salary, you don't have to get stressed in our
> place either.
>
> Michael
>
>
>
>
> On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 4:04 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I once toyed with the idea of "slow scholarship" and I remain entirely
> > convinced that this is a virtue. But once I was entered into the
> > competition/race of academia, it was all about how fast you can get to
> the
> > finish line (aka "publications").
> >
> > Perhaps there is something good about this (assuming that it is better to
> > publish something than to not publish anything), but it also has the
> > nefarious effect of turning scholars into cogs in publishing factories.
> >
> > And, continuing in this cynical spirit, I might add that the Science
> > article about "Slow" actually seems to be making the same case for speed
> -
> > maybe it isn't a sprint, but it is still a race and first one to the
> finish
> > line wins, so you better pick up the pace! Fast!
> >
> > And re: the man whispering in his ear as he runs:
> > "We see how in this way the mode of production and the means of
> production
> > are continually transformed, revolutionised, *how the division of labour
> is
> > necessarily followed by greater divisions of labour, the application of
> > machinery by still greater application of machinery, work on a large
> scale
> > by work on a still larger scale.*
> >
> > "That is the law which again and again throws bourgeois production out of
> > its old course and which compels capital to intensify the productive
> forces
> > of labour, *because *it has intensified them, it, the law which gives
> > capital no rest and continually whispers in its ear: 'Go on! Go on!'"
> > (Marx - Wage Labour and Capital).
> >
> > -greg​
> >
> > On Wed, Feb 28, 2018 at 3:11 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
> > wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Hi all,
> > > this article "In praise of slow" appears to be fitting the discussion.
> > The
> > > author uses a nice analogy with running. Michael
> > > http://science.sciencemag.org/content/359/6375/602
> > >
> > > On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 8:40 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > > "Assessing their abilities and accomplishments in this regard was a
> > > matter
> > > > of judgment and so could not be quantified; it could be exercised
> only
> > by
> > > > those capable of it."
> > > >
> > > > I would say, "cannot be quantified simply".
> > > >
> > > > Best,
> > > > Huw
> > > >
> > > > On 26 February 2018 at 15:05, Greg Thompson <
> greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
> > >
> > > > wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > And here is a nice article that speaks to the bureaucratic logic
> > that I
> > > > was
> > > > > mentioning (the author refers to "the all-administrative
> > institution"):
> > > > > https://lareviewofbooks.org/article/whose-university-is-
> it-anyway/#!
> > > > >
> > > > > A quote from it:
> > > > > "The revolution is over and the administrators have won. But the
> > > > > persistence of traditional structures and language has led some to
> > > think
> > > > > that the fight over the institution is now just beginning. This is
> a
> > > > > mistake. As with most revolutions, open conflict occurs only after
> > real
> > > > > power has already changed hands."
> > > > >
> > > > > -greg
> > > > >
> > > > > On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 6:27 PM, Martin Packer <mpacker@cantab.net
> >
> > > > wrote:
> > > > >
> > > > > > On STEM and social science:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <<https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/24/opinion/sunday/
> > > > > > doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?action=click&pgtype=
> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-
> > > > > > left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=
> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/
> > > > > > 02/24/opinion/sunday/doctors-revolt-bernard-lown.html?
> > > > > > action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&
> > > > > > module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-col-
> > > > > > left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > On measures of learning:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-
> > > > > > measure-learning-outcomes.html?action=click&pgtype=
> > > > > > Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=opinion-c-col-
> > > > > > left-region&region=opinion-c-col-left-region&WT.nav=
> > > > > > opinion-c-col-left-region <https://www.nytimes.com/2018/
> > > > > > 02/23/opinion/sunday/colleges-measure-learning-outcomes.
> > > > > > html?action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-
> > > > > > heading&module=opinion-c-col-left-region&region=opinion-c-
> > > > > > col-left-region&WT.nav=opinion-c-col-left-region>>
> > > > > >
> > > > > > Martin
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > > > On Feb 25, 2018, at 8:15 PM, Glassman, Michael <
> > > glassman.13@osu.edu>
> > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Hi Huw,
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps the opposite is also true though.  STEM researchers can
> > > > better
> > > > > > understand what they are doing if they are well versed in the
> > social
> > > > > > sciences. Understand the history and the meaning of what they are
> > > doing
> > > > > so
> > > > > > they do not act as androids (sorry, been watching the Aliens
> > trilogy
> > > of
> > > > > > late). Perhaps we made the wrong calculation. We have lost
> control
> > of
> > > > our
> > > > > > great STEM innovations because the people using them don't
> > understand
> > > > the
> > > > > > social webs that they create.  So we have people pushing xMOOCs
> > > > (whatever
> > > > > > happened to MOOCs anyway) as saving education (and also a bundle
> so
> > > > > > everybody gets tax cuts, wheeee!), saying that they are good
> > because
> > > > they
> > > > > > can reach many, the proverbial long tail, with great education
> > > > (Harvard,
> > > > > > Stanford).  Yet nobody asks the question, "Why is this a good
> > thing."
> > > > > There
> > > > > > really isn't much supporting this in earlier distance education.
> > > There
> > > > > is
> > > > > > actually more evidence of how dangerous it is (Participatory
> Action
> > > > > > Research).
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Michael
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > > > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> > > > > > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Huw Lloyd
> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2018 7:32 PM
> > > > > > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > > > > > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > I would ask, what makes you think you have an ecology (or
> niche)?
> > > It
> > > > > > seems that the notion of topologically derived ecologies is still
> > > > bandied
> > > > > > about since Bronfenbrenner (1977), though I do not know whether
> he
> > > > > managed
> > > > > > to refine (overhaul and improve) his notions into something
> > > integrated
> > > > > and
> > > > > > agent-centric. One does not provide an ecology or an environment.
> > The
> > > > > > environment is different for everyone, a simple consideration of
> a
> > > > > > rock-face or climbing wall is sufficient to grasp this -- the so
> > > called
> > > > > > environment (the rock face) is different to each climber, their
> > > > > environment
> > > > > > is that which is appropriate to them which includes contexts well
> > > > beyond
> > > > > > what is established in an institution. From what I can gauge,
> > > > > historically,
> > > > > > slack was deliberately introduced into courses to afford personal
> > > > > enquiry.
> > > > > > > There was the basic work and then there was the genuine
> enquiry.
> > > Who
> > > > in
> > > > > > their right mind wants to write an exam essay on a question they
> > are
> > > > > > expected to pre-write and repeat by memory? Why would someone who
> > > > enjoys
> > > > > > thinking about their subject want to go through that kind of
> > > > impoverished
> > > > > > tedium? These systems are obviously geared for "delivery".
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Perhaps the biggest cultural shift can be achieved through
> > > > instituting
> > > > > > joint and personal enquiry. A teacher that stands before their
> > class
> > > > and
> > > > > > delivers their subject inevitably obscures and obstructs the
> > process
> > > of
> > > > > > enquiry, although many students will have learnt from a young age
> > > that
> > > > > this
> > > > > > is what to expect and demand. Engagement with genuine problems
> > rather
> > > > > than
> > > > > > what students are expected to do is the basic orientational
> issue.
> > > > > Dispose
> > > > > > of grades, then anyone who isn't interested is free to go home.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > The advance of STEM research is probably a good thing for
> social
> > > > > science.
> > > > > > > For productive work, social science must understand the
> structure
> > > of
> > > > > > STEM based work, in addition to bureaucratic processes and
> > > > circumstances
> > > > > > for creative work. Sticking one's head in the sand over STEM-like
> > > > > research
> > > > > > serves merely to perpetuate the impoverished side of social
> > science.
> > > It
> > > > > > reminds me of the scene in Pirsig's Zen and the Art of Motorcycle
> > > > > > Maintenance in which a couple lack the wherewithal to fix a
> > dripping
> > > > > faucet
> > > > > > that gives them grief and instead choose to ignore it. Though it
> > was
> > > a
> > > > > very
> > > > > > long time ago, Pirsig's book may have contributed to my
> > understanding
> > > > of
> > > > > > quality and might be thought of as an exploration of some social
> > > issues
> > > > > > pertaining to technical enterprises. Another good text to
> > appreciate
> > > > > > quality more directly, probably outside the formal area of STEM,
> is
> > > > > > Alshuller's Innovation Algorithm.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Warm regards to you Henry, Greg, Alfredo.
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > Best,
> > > > > > > Huw
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > > On 25 February 2018 at 22:39, Alfredo Jornet Gil <
> > > > a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> > > > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >> Greg, Huw, and others, I do often get worried that in the
> > formals
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> informal meetings at our department (department of education),
> > > > > > >> conversations tend to focus on the "micro" developments that
> you
> > > > > > >> mention (students, grades, getting a next grant, getting that
> > > paper
> > > > > > >> published, making sure you've got enough) most of the time,
> and
> > > not
> > > > so
> > > > > > >> much on what society we would like to have, and how our
> > > institution
> > > > > > >> could/should contribute to that. I do not have any suggestions
> > on
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> type of studies that you ask about—dealing with how ecologies
> of
> > > > > > >> scholarship in academia lead to given developmental
> > dynamics—other
> > > > > > >> than the classical studies in STS, like Latour & Woolgar's on
> > > > > > >> laboratory life, or S. L. Star's. But when I look forward at
> > what
> > > > lies
> > > > > > >> between me (or anyone in my institution) and a change in the
> way
> > > > this
> > > > > > >> institution has impact in the life of many, what I see is lots
> > of
> > > > > > >> routines, habits, documents, and paperwork entangled in the
> > > middle,
> > > > > > >> such that the idea "mediation all the way through" makes all
> the
> > > > > > >> sense. And seeing things that way (from the ecological
> > > perspective),
> > > > > > >> makes the possibility of changing things to look actually
> > > feasible,
> > > > or
> > > > > > >> more accurately perhaps, imagine-able. I'd like to continue
> > being
> > > > part
> > > > > > >> of the ecology to be able to be also be part of its changing
> > it. I
> > > > > > >> hope others will bring more specific literature to bear. I am
> > > > already
> > > > > > downloading some of Peter Sloterdijk's to read.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Alfredo
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> ________________________________________
> > > > > > >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of Greg Thompson
> > > > > > >> <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >> Sent: 24 February 2018 17:45
> > > > > > >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I appreciate Huw's concern about academia and the push to
> orient
> > > to
> > > > a
> > > > > > >> broader and more systemic concern with "development". I think
> > that
> > > > > > >> this is what institutions of higher education are supposed to
> > > have,
> > > > > > >> right? - at the very least a concern for the development of
> > > > individual
> > > > > > >> "students", but also, one would hope, a concern for
> > "development"
> > > > at a
> > > > > > >> longer timescale (e.g., how to be a better society, a better
> > > world).
> > > > > > >> They certainly tout these in their promo materials.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> And yet, in practice, these institutions often fall back on
> > > > > > >> bureaucratic or economic logics. Bureaucratic logic goes
> > something
> > > > > > >> like, "just publish (in "good" (i.e., high impact factor)
> > > journals),
> > > > > > >> who cares what you publish so long as we can count it to
> > determine
> > > > its
> > > > > > (and your) 'value'(!)".
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> As for the economic logic, I was just talking with Rick
> Shweder
> > > the
> > > > > > >> other day about this issue and he expressed the concern about
> > the
> > > > push
> > > > > > >> towards STEM education at the expense of all else and the way
> > that
> > > > > > >> STEM buildings are slowly starting to take over his campus
> (the
> > > > > > >> University of Chicago - a place that was long held to be a
> hold
> > > out
> > > > of
> > > > > > >> liberal arts education - apparently they now have an
> engineering
> > > > > > >> program). He suggested that this is tied to an early 80's
> court
> > > > > > >> decision that gave universities ownership of patents developed
> > on
> > > > > their
> > > > > > campuses.
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> To my mind, this calls to mind a concern with ecologies of
> > > > development
> > > > > > >> (across the shorter and longer timescales). What are the
> > ecologies
> > > > > > >> (social, economic, political, etc.) within which development
> (at
> > > > these
> > > > > > >> various
> > > > > > >> timescales) occurs in our world today? This is really a
> question
> > > of
> > > > > > >> what is possible and/or what is likely with regard to
> becoming.
> > > What
> > > > > > >> are the forms of life and forms of development that are
> > > sustainable
> > > > > > >> given the larger ecologies in which that development happens?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> And for thinking through that problem, I've had a hard time
> > > thinking
> > > > > > >> of anyone who has better thought through this problem than
> Marx
> > -
> > > at
> > > > > > >> the longer timescale of development, that is (Vygotsky would,
> of
> > > > > > >> course, be better at thinking through development at the
> shorter
> > > > > > >> timescale of ontogeny).
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> I'd love to hear others' thoughts on those who have studied
> > > > activities
> > > > > > >> that can begin to shed light on these ecologies of development
> > > > > > >> (particularly at the longer timescale). Any
> > thoughts/suggestions?
> > > I
> > > > > > >> would imagine this work considering various kinds of
> > institutions
> > > > that
> > > > > > >> run the gamut - from venture capitalist firms to non-profits
> to
> > > > > > >> governmental institutions to institutions of higher
> education. I
> > > > would
> > > > > > >> presume that each of these kinds of institutions would have a
> > > local
> > > > > > >> ecology within which they work, but I am tempted to imagine
> some
> > > > kind
> > > > > > >> of global meta-ecology (perhaps Marx's "global
> > > > > > >> capitalism"?) within which each of these local ecologies
> > operates.
> > > > I'd
> > > > > > >> be curious about actual research that has been done
> documenting
> > > the
> > > > > > >> nature of these ecologies - e.g., what kinds of resources are
> > > > > > >> available to be exploited? What kinds of possibilities are
> there
> > > for
> > > > > > >> different forms of life? What institutional organisms can
> > thrive?
> > > > > > >> Which are dying off? (and just to be clear, I am intending a
> > > > > > >> biological/evolutionary nature of the metaphor).
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> It seems that this kind of work would be most likely to have
> > been
> > > > done
> > > > > > >> by folks in the CHAT world, but perhaps the scale (of time and
> > > > space)
> > > > > > >> is a bit beyond the scales that CHAT folks prefer to consider?
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> (I should add that I've recently discovered the work of Peter
> > > > > > >> Sloterdijk's Bubbles trilogy and am curious if anyone has any
> > > > thoughts
> > > > > > >> on the value of his approach - it seems to fit very well with
> > Marx
> > > > and
> > > > > > >> with CHAT/Vygotsky, my only initial concern was that he seems
> to
> > > > fly a
> > > > > > >> little fast and loose with pyschoanalytics at times - not a
> > > serious
> > > > > > >> problem, but perhaps in a few places).
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> Sympathetically,
> > > > > > >> greg
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 1:57 PM, Huw Lloyd <
> > > > huw.softdesigns@gmail.com
> > > > > >
> > > > > > >> wrote:
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>> Well, I would say there is more to it than simply
> > > transfer-ability,
> > > > > > >>> which might be thought of as a good bureaucratic requirement.
> > > > Really
> > > > > > >>> what is required is genuine development -- reorganisation of
> > > > thought
> > > > > > >>> and
> > > > > > >> learning.
> > > > > > >>> That is what is significant at a personal level, which is
> also
> > > the
> > > > > > >>> basis
> > > > > > >> of
> > > > > > >>> insights and creative work (i.e. personal knowledge rather
> than
> > > > > > >>> second
> > > > > > >> hand
> > > > > > >>> knowledge). The researcher in the blog article does not
> evince
> > > this
> > > > > > >>> (with allusions to the nature of her training). There is the
> > > > history
> > > > > > >>> school children learn, which largely concerns the use of
> > memory,
> > > > and
> > > > > > >>> then there
> > > > > > >> is
> > > > > > >>> the history of conditions, relations and processes, which
> > > concerns
> > > > > > >>> protracted thought. This developmental emphasis is what is
> > > lacking
> > > > > > >>> in institutions which is why I have frequently pointed it
> out.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> This principle apples to "secure" jobs too. The jobs I have
> > > walked
> > > > > > >>> away from have been due to the overly narrow scope, where I
> > felt
> > > it
> > > > > > >>> was necessary to be far more ambitious to achieve modest
> > > > > > >>> satisfaction, an ambition which included achieving the wider
> > > scope
> > > > > > >>> within the norms established. Similar issues pertain to my
> > > > > > >>> peripheral engagement with academia. Twenty years ago, after
> > > > > > >>> completing a masters in cognitive
> > > > > > >> science
> > > > > > >>> (a good year), I decided against pursuing any further formal
> > > > > > >>> education
> > > > > > >> with
> > > > > > >>> any immediacy due to my sense that what I was encountering in
> > the
> > > > > > >>> subject (and related subjects) was fundamentally wrong or
> > > > > > >>> inadequate, but I couldn't quite discern what that was. So,
> for
> > > me,
> > > > > > >>> I had no interest in furthering the academic course at the
> > time,
> > > > > > >>> because I was concerned with understanding, doing,
> discovering
> > > and
> > > > > > >>> development, not being a "good researcher". I was and am
> > > > > > >>> uninterested in the trappings of academia, what it looks like
> > > from
> > > > > > >>> the outside (with dubious ethics of promoting those in
> society
> > > who
> > > > > > >>> least need it) -- hence I am not too bothered about where the
> > > > > > >>> experiences come from. After all, if you want sound knowledge
> > > then
> > > > > > >>> it should be validated in places where it counts (in action),
> > not
> > > > in
> > > > > > an echo chamber of words.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> From my (developmental) perspective academia appears to be
> > > > > > >>>> chockfull of
> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking. The lack of systems understanding in
> the
> > > > > > >>> social sciences (which has been pointed out by key persons
> for
> > > two
> > > > > > >>> generations)
> > > > > > >> I
> > > > > > >>> find to be quite incredible. This, as far as I can see, is
> the
> > > > > > >>> panacea to the stasis and lethargy that I have seen in
> certain
> > > > > > >>> institutions, where there are people in secure jobs with no
> > > > interest
> > > > > > >>> in revitalising an institution (perhaps the same people who
> > rely
> > > > > > >>> upon their status for authority). In the UK, in the social
> > > > sciences,
> > > > > > >>> the whole social science infrastructure is built upon a
> notion
> > of
> > > > > > >>> quality that is ignorant of systems -- that is the degree to
> > > which
> > > > > > >>> unproductive thinking has
> > > > > > >> penetrated
> > > > > > >>> social science.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Yet there is much more to it still. Recently I have also come
> > to
> > > a
> > > > > > >>> surprising awareness that developmental prerogatives have
> > rather
> > > a
> > > > > > >>> significant amount in common with spiritual ones. So I would
> > > offer
> > > > > > >> broader
> > > > > > >>> advice than Michael's of staying clear of hardship. It may be
> > > that
> > > > > > >>> in
> > > > > > >> that
> > > > > > >>> "nadir" something surprising may be discovered. For anyone
> > with a
> > > > > > >>> passion "job security" is not a goal, at best it is a means
> to
> > an
> > > > > > >>> ends, at worst
> > > > > > >> it
> > > > > > >>> is an obstacle.
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Over and out. :)
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> Best,
> > > > > > >>> Huw
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>> On 20 February 2018 at 07:12, Alfredo Jornet Gil
> > > > > > >>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> > > > > > >>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> Huw, Helena, and all,
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> thanks to you both for taking the discussion where I was
> > hoping
> > > it
> > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > >> go
> > > > > > >>>> further: first, towards a reflection on the nature of
> training
> > > > > > >>>> academic scholars go through as it concerns the classical
> > > problem
> > > > > > >>>> of learning "transfer"; and then, as it regards the question
> > of
> > > > > > >>>> academic freedom
> > > > > > >>> (which
> > > > > > >>>> actually may be the same question, just taken in a language
> > more
> > > > > > >> adequate
> > > > > > >>>> to an ecological understanding of the problem). This is
> > > absolutely
> > > > > > >>>> not
> > > > > > >>> just
> > > > > > >>>> an individual problem. And, on that matter, I should be
> clear
> > > that
> > > > > > >>>> I
> > > > > > >> am a
> > > > > > >>>> privileged in a privileged land, where, despite all
> > uncertainty
> > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > >> pains
> > > > > > >>>> that my family have gone and go through, I have today a good
> > > > > > >>>> background
> > > > > > >>> and
> > > > > > >>>> network, and probably better prospects than the majority of
> > > junior
> > > > > > >>> scholars
> > > > > > >>>> out there. Not that I have earned this privilege for
> nothing:
> > my
> > > > > > >> migrant
> > > > > > >>>> history and that of my family is all connected to an effort
> > and
> > > > > > >>>> quest
> > > > > > >> to
> > > > > > >>>> get better chances of academic opportunity in this market
> > Helena
> > > > > > >>>> talks about. But my personal story, as that of the historian
> > in
> > > > > > >>>> the article shared or of my French astronomer friend, are
> > > relevant
> > > > > > >>>> in as far as
> > > > > > >> they
> > > > > > >>>> help us reflect on just those questions. They really also
> make
> > > one
> > > > > > >> wonder
> > > > > > >>>> on the sense of the term "academic freedom", for the latter
> > term
> > > > > > >>>> cannot
> > > > > > >>> be
> > > > > > >>>> about doing whatever research you want to do independently
> of
> > > some
> > > > > > >> market
> > > > > > >>>> conditions and societal needs and economy. We may then pose
> > the
> > > > > > >>> questions,
> > > > > > >>>> what type of "freedom" is the "freedom" current systems (of
> > > > > > >>>> incentives,
> > > > > > >>> of
> > > > > > >>>> ISI lists) afford, and what type of system could allow for
> > > another
> > > > > > >>> meaning
> > > > > > >>>> of the term "freedom"?
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Not to get too abstract, I guess that those reflections may
> be
> > > > > > >>>> best pondered along concrete cases, if people is willing to
> > take
> > > > > > >>>> on Helena's suggestion to share particular stories of all
> that
> > > > > > >>>> goes into getting
> > > > > > >> into
> > > > > > >>>> secured academic job positions, or else, of pursuing
> > > (in)dependent
> > > > > > >>> careers
> > > > > > >>>> outside/at the borders of/across academia.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Alfredo
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> ________________________________________
> > > > > > >>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >>>> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>> on behalf of Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>> Sent: 19 February 2018 19:19
> > > > > > >>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > > >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> In the interests of widening the discussion:
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I’ve described my work history before on this list —
> > basically,
> > > > > > >>>> moving from teaching literature and writing (with stopovers
> in
> > > > > > >>>> landscape architecture and theater production) to concern
> > about
> > > > > > >>>> the working conditions of teachers, especially academics in
> > > higher
> > > > > > >>>> education, the
> > > > > > >> 75%
> > > > > > >>>> who are contingent/adjuncts. The concern is both for the
> > people
> > > > > > >> employed
> > > > > > >>>> this way and for the integrity of the institutions that
> employ
> > > > > > >>>> them. I eventually engaged this concern by working with and
> > for
> > > > > > >>>> the labor
> > > > > > >>> movement,
> > > > > > >>>> ending up first working for the garment/apparel workers
> union
> > in
> > > > > > >>>> Philadelphia and then at the Labor Educaiton Program at the
> U
> > of
> > > > > > >>> Illinois,
> > > > > > >>>> from which I retired in 2010.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> The new twist to this story is about the employment of
> > academics
> > > > > > >>>> on short-term contracts in Viet Nam, under conditions that
> > seem
> > > to
> > > > > > >>>> be increasingly frequent in the “developing” world, where
> the
> > > > > > >>>> market for education is booming. University World News
> > > http://www
> > > > .
> > > > > > >>>> universityworldnews.com/  tracks this phenomenon and
> includes
> > > > > > >> occasinal
> > > > > > >>>> critical articles about the competition for rankings. The
> > > > > > >>>> university
> > > > > > >>> where
> > > > > > >>>> my husband and I have been teaching on and off since 2015,
> Ton
> > > Duc
> > > > > > >> Thang
> > > > > > >>> in
> > > > > > >>>> Ho Chi Minh City, recruits professors from all over the
> world
> > > with
> > > > > > >>>> a promise of $2,000 per month US — but extending their
> > contracts
> > > > > > >>>> depends
> > > > > > >> on
> > > > > > >>>> producing articles published in journals on the ISI list;
> the
> > > > > > >>>> nature of this list is worth taking a look at. The impact of
> > > this
> > > > > > >>>> practice on the culture and student body is not all bad.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> My point here is to place the issue of the challenge of
> > getting
> > > a
> > > > > > >>>> tenure-track job in a global context. This is not just an
> > > > > > >>>> individual problem.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> I’m willing to go further down this line of discussion.
> > However,
> > > > > > >>> academics
> > > > > > >>>> are often reluctant to reveal and compare their working
> > > conditions
> > > > > > >>>> on
> > > > > > >> an
> > > > > > >>>> “academic” discussion list. Maybe by putting up the issue of
> > > what
> > > > > > >>> academic
> > > > > > >>>> freedom requires, and how these requirements fare in the
> > global
> > > > > > >>>> market
> > > > > > >>> for
> > > > > > >>>> higher education, we can shed the embarassment of revealing
> > > > > > >>>> information about our own experiences with getting the brass
> > > ring
> > > > > > >>>> of a full-time, secure job.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Let’s see if anyone picks up on this. Maybe I’m being too
> > vague.
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>> Helena Worthen
> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com
> > > > > > >>>> Berkeley, CA 94707 510-828-2745
> > > > > > >>>> Blog US/ Viet Nam:
> > > > > > >>>> helenaworthen.wordpress.com
> > > > > > >>>> skype: helena.worthen1
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On Feb 19, 2018, at 9:19 AM, Huw Lloyd
> > > > > > >>>>> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> The article describes accumulating large amounts of
> knowledge
> > > > > > >>> pertaining
> > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>> history, which (the author maintains) cannot be turned to
> > other
> > > > > > >>>> endeavours.
> > > > > > >>>>> This, no doubt, is true for her. If, however, her approach
> to
> > > > > > >> studying
> > > > > > >>>>> history had been systemic, then there would have been a
> > > powerful
> > > > > > >>>>> form
> > > > > > >>> of
> > > > > > >>>>> re-application and continuity in any work that was turned
> to.
> > > > > > >>>>> Perhaps
> > > > > > >>> the
> > > > > > >>>>> same can be said for "phd/postdoc training". If it cannot
> be
> > > > > > >>>>> reused
> > > > > > >> or
> > > > > > >>>>> isn't enabling, what, substantively, is it?
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> Best,
> > > > > > >>>>> Huw
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>> On 18 February 2018 at 18:32, Alfredo Jornet Gil <
> > > > > > >> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> > > > > > >>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Really inspiring words and work, Francine. I do see
> > community
> > > > > > >> colleges
> > > > > > >>>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>> many other educational settings apart from universities as
> > > > > > >>>>>> really
> > > > > > >>>> valuable
> > > > > > >>>>>> and exciting opportunities; the PhD and following postdoc
> > etc
> > > > > > >> training
> > > > > > >>>> in
> > > > > > >>>>>> universities, however, tend to be very much targeted
> > towards a
> > > > > > >>>>>> very
> > > > > > >>>> narrow
> > > > > > >>>>>> spectrum of positions, or at least that's been my
> > experience.
> > > I
> > > > > > >>>>>> am
> > > > > > >>> very
> > > > > > >>>>>> happy that this thread may widen that scope and make
> visible
> > > > > > >>>>>> other
> > > > > > >>>> paths.
> > > > > > >>>>>> And as Mike suggested, it would be very interesting to
> hear
> > > > > > >>>>>> from
> > > > > > >>> several
> > > > > > >>>>>> others who have followed distinct trajectories apart from
> > the
> > > > > > >>>>>> phd-postdoc-assist/assoc. prof-prof, and yet made a career
> > in
> > > > > > >>>>>> touch
> > > > > > >>> with
> > > > > > >>>>>> most of what was developed in the junior (phd and few
> later)
> > > > > years.
> > > > > > >>>>>> Thanks!
> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo
> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________________
> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.
> > > > > > >>> edu>
> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of Larry Smolucha <lsmolucha@hotmail.com>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 06:20
> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Message from Francine Smolucha on a scholar's life with or
> > > > > > >>>>>> without
> > > > > > >>>> academia
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Alfredo,
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> There are other jobs that pay well (sometimes with tenure
> > and
> > > > > > >>>>>> early retirement benefits) - besides professorships at
> four
> > > > > > >>>>>> year colleges
> > > > > > >>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>> universities.  Administrative and support staff positions
> > pay
> > > > > well.
> > > > > > >>> And
> > > > > > >>>>>> don't overlook community colleges, technical colleges, and
> > > > > > >>>>>> public
> > > > > > >>> grade
> > > > > > >>>>>> schools and high schools. There is also the private sector
> > and
> > > > > > >>>> government
> > > > > > >>>>>> jobs.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> As a 'low status' community college professor, I managed
> to
> > > > > > >> translate
> > > > > > >>>>>> Vygotsky's
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> overlooked writings on creativity (back in the 1980's) and
> > > > > > >> introduced
> > > > > > >>>> his
> > > > > > >>>>>> theory of creativity to academia.  I got early retirement
> at
> > > > > > >>>>>> age 53
> > > > > > >>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>> continue to write and publish. While my Ph.D from the
> > > > > > >>>>>> University of
> > > > > > >>>> Chicago
> > > > > > >>>>>> gave me academic bona fides, it was the quality of the
> > > > > > >>>>>> scholarly
> > > > > > >> work
> > > > > > >>>> that
> > > > > > >>>>>> ultimately mattered.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> I was always inspired by the harsh circumstances of
> > Vygotsky's
> > > > > > >>>>>> life
> > > > > > >>> and
> > > > > > >>>>>> how he still kept on writing.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> [When I felt really sorry for myself, I would actually say
> > > > > > >>>>>> "Well at
> > > > > > >>>> least
> > > > > > >>>>>> I am not coughing up blood"]
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> So many of his works were not published in his lifetime,
> he
> > > did
> > > > > not
> > > > > > >>>>>> collect a royalties check, and    they say he was
> depressed
> > at
> > > > the
> > > > > > >> end
> > > > > > >>>> of
> > > > > > >>>>>> his life.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> I leave you with this quote from an ancient Sufi mystic -
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> You can't always get what you want but you can get what
> you
> > > > > > >>>>>> need
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> .
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> ________________________________
> > > > > > >>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.
> > > > > > >>> edu>
> > > > > > >>>>>> on behalf of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2018 7:07 PM
> > > > > > >>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > > > > >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> Yours is a quandary shared by your generation, Alfredo.
> > > > > > >>>>>> Being allowed to teach and conduct research in a quality
> > > > > > >>>>>> institution
> > > > > > >>> is
> > > > > > >>>> a
> > > > > > >>>>>> great privilege and an
> > > > > > >>>>>> increasingly rarer possibility.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> There are several people on this list who have organized
> > their
> > > > > > >>>>>> lives
> > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > >>>> be
> > > > > > >>>>>> independent scholars
> > > > > > >>>>>> while staying connected to the core institutions of
> > > > > > >>>>>> disciplinary
> > > > > > >>>> training.
> > > > > > >>>>>> It might be nice to hear
> > > > > > >>>>>> the variety out there.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> It appears pretty certain that the situation is going to
> get
> > > > > > >>>>>> worse before/if it gets better.
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> What can the collective experience of xmca come up with
> that
> > > > > > >>>>>> would
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > >>>>>> useful to the many
> > > > > > >>>>>> of you caught in this meat grinder?
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> mike
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> On Sat, Feb 17, 2018 at 4:49 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <
> > > > > > >>>> a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Good luck then, Wagner!
> > > > > > >>>>>>> A
> > > > > > >>>>>>> ________________________________________
> > > > > > >>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > > > > > >> <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.
> > > > > > >>> edu
> > > > > > >>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> on behalf of Wagner Luiz Schmit <wagner.schmit@gmail.com
> >
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Sent: 18 February 2018 01:07
> > > > > > >>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture Activity
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: (non)grieving scholarship
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> This just hit me in the spot...
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> Wagner
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>> On Feb 17, 2018 9:48 PM, "Alfredo Jornet Gil"
> > > > > > >>>>>>> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>>>>> wrote:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I have not been able to contribute to this list as much
> as
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I'd
> > > > > > >> like
> > > > > > >>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> lately, among other things, because I need to find a
> job,
> > > and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> I
> > > > > > >> need
> > > > > > >>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> make sure that I have checked all those boxes that
> > selection
> > > > > > >>>> committees
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> will check (enough first-authored publications? in good
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough
> > > > > > >>>>>> journals?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> enough leadership in projects? teaching? supervising?
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> acquiring
> > > > > > >>> funds?
> > > > > > >>>>>>> more
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> than all others candidates? and more than
> > > > > > >>> favoured-for-whatever-other-
> > > > > > >>>>>>> reasons
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> candidates?). So I have been doing all I can these weeks
> > to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> fill
> > > > > > >> up
> > > > > > >>> a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> competitive CV, for my contract is about to expire.
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> And, although I did not think that it was particularly
> > well
> > > > > > >> written,
> > > > > > >>>> it
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> was both relieving and discouraging to read this article
> > > (see
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> link
> > > > > > >>>>>> below,
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> which I take from the facebook wall of a colleague who I
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> think
> > > > > > >> also
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> subscribes this list). The article makes visible the
> pain
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> scholars
> > > > > > >>> go
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> through when, after so many years of digging and digging
> > and
> > > > > > >>> digging a
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> little (but deep!) hole, may after all have to leave it
> > and
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find
> > > > > > >>> some
> > > > > > >>>>>>> other
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> thing to do. In Canada, I met a French astronomer who
> was
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> moving
> > > > > > >>>>>> through
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> the world with his lovely family, short-term project
> after
> > > > > > >>> short-term
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> project, getting better and better at what he worked on
> > > > > > >> (apparently
> > > > > > >>> he
> > > > > > >>>>>>> was
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> among the few who had expertise in computer modeling
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> simulating
> > > > > > >> some
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> astronomic events) , and finally having to step out
> > academia
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> last
> > > > > > >>> year
> > > > > > >>>>>> to
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> find something else to do, for his family no longer
> could
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> stand
> > > > > > >> the
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> constant uncertainty and travelling. It could be me
> soon.
> > > And
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> that
> > > > > > >>> may
> > > > > > >>>>>>> not
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> be a bad thing, or even a thing in itself, but the story
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> seems to
> > > > > > >> be
> > > > > > >>>>>>> quite
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> endemic to academia and may be interesting to some of
> you:
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> https://www.chronicle.com/article/Why-Everybody-Loses-
> > > When/24
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> 2560
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>> Alfredo
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>>
> > > > > > >>>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >> --
> > > > > > >> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > > > > >> Assistant Professor
> > > > > > >> Department of Anthropology
> > > > > > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > > > > >> Brigham Young University
> > > > > > >> Provo, UT 84602
> > > > > > >> WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
> > > > > > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > > > > > >>
> > > > > > >
> > > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > --
> > > > > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > > > > Assistant Professor
> > > > > Department of Anthropology
> > > > > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > > > > Brigham Young University
> > > > > Provo, UT 84602
> > > > > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
> > > > > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > Brigham Young University
> > Provo, UT 84602
> > WEBSITE: greg.a.thompson.byu.edu
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >
>