[Xmca-l] Re: The Complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday

[mike cole]

We’ll get right on it David . Thanks for the warning.

As usual I fail to understanding of the words I used.

Very useful for a first post in the discussion forum. Let’s see what
mistakes Gordon is led into in his deployment of the term

But first let’s get it up and running! This was supposed to be the easy
part!

Mike

On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 5:45 PM David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a slightly different problem, Mike (and of course Brian Jones, the
> guardian angel of xmca, hovering silently in the background). I figured out
> the problem just as Alfredo did and reached the place to register. I even
> got an email asking me to confirm my submission. But it doesn't recognize
> the administrative string that I send to confirm, either by email or at the
> site.
>
> Anyway, voila, here's what I wanted to say (because I am teaching it in
> phonology class today, as review for the midterm). In phonetics,
> "complementary distribution" means that the two sounds are NOT
> interchangeable: for example, you always find the "dark", syllabic
> consonant /l/ at the end of the word "little" and you never find it at the
> beginning. The distribution of "dark l" and "light l" is called
> complementary, because it's like Clark Kent and Superman, they are one and
> the same entity and as a result you never find them in the same
> environment, You always find the "light" nonsyllabic consonant /l/ at the
> beginning of the word "little" and you never find it at the end.
>
> So one way to talk about the complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday is to
> say that they have basically the same identity (a Marxist theoretical
> background, a monist, holistic methodology, a cultural historical approach,
> a semantic, "already socialized" view of consciousness but "personality as
> individualized brain". But like some closeted straight guy who starts
> frequenting gay bars, they are found in different environments, viz. the
> study of thinking on the one hand and the study of speech on the other.
> This is, actually, what Professor Wells proposes in his article.
>
> But another way to talk about this complementarity is messier. You see, in
> phonetics, "overlapping distribution" means that two sounds ARE
> interchangeable, but if you DO interchange them, you get a change in
> meaning. So for example if you interchange the /t/ sound and the /l/ sound
> in the word 'little" you come up with "tillet", which isn't exactly a word,
> but sounds vaguely like a name, or maybe a mispronunciation of "tilt" or
> "tilled" or (if you are Korean or Japanese or Chinese) "turret". These are
> differences in meaning. The distribution of /t/ and /l/ is called
> overlapping because you DO find the two sounds in the same environment--at
> the beginning of a syllable ("Ted" and "led"), in the middle ("betting" and
> "belling" and at the end ("sit" and "sill").
>
> So another way to talk about LSV and MAKH is to say that when you change
> your point of view, you do get a change in meaning. For example, LSV treats
> the development of child language as essentially crisis-ridden. MAKH never
> speaks of crises, although his way of modeling language as systems might
> imply them. MAKH on the other hand treats context as something that is
> language-generated, while LSV never talks like this, although his way of
> modeling the social situation of development as a relationship between the
> child and the environment might be considered compatible with this
> view--but not exactly complementary.
>
> This latter way seems more likely to me. I think one of the things that LSV
> and MAKH have in common is that they would both reject the idea that the
> study of consciousness and the study of language belong to entirely
> different sciences, and they would equally reject any attempt to divide
> that science from its practical applications. For that very reason, they
> both have a rather "fuzzy" sense of what meaning is--they both think that
> meaning kind of penumbral--bright and illuminating in the middle but
> infinitely extendable and therefore not definite around the edges.
>
> David Kellogg
> Sangmyung University
>
> Recent Article in *Early Years*
>
> The question of questions: Hasan’s critiques, Vygotsky’s crises, and the
> child’s first interrogatives
> <https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09575146.2018.1431874>
>
> Free e-print available at:
> https://www.tandfonline.com/eprint/6EeWMigjFARavQjDJjcW/full
>
>
> On Wed, Apr 18, 2018 at 6:43 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > Thanks for re-posting, Alfredo.
> > Sorry about the broken link.
> >
> > I look forward to an educational experience!
> >
> > mike
> >
> > On Tue, Apr 17, 2018 at 1:14 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > The link for subscribing to the MAKH discussion/symposium in Mike's
> > e-mail
> > > is broken in two lines. In case this creates difficulties to use it, I
> > copy
> > > it below in one line :
> > >
> > > https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailman/listinfo/xlsv-makh-l
> > >
> > > Alfredo
> > > ________________________________________
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> >
> > > on behalf of mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
> > > Sent: 17 April 2018 19:38
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l]  The Complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday
> > >
> > > Dear Colleagues,
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Even before the death of Michael Halliday, I have been beginning to
> > > organize a discussion on the joint work of Vygotsky and Halliday. In
> this
> > > case I am acting
> > >
> > > in my capacity as "special project" editor of *MCA*. I would like to
> > create
> > > either a seminar or perhaps a special issue, of MCA on the topic of the
> > > complementarity of Vygotsky and Halliday. It is a project that is the
> > > personal concern of several members of xmca, and beyond who share a
> > common
> > > interest in the study of langugage, culture, mind and development.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > The question is, how to organize such a "joint project" symposium? I do
> > not
> > > think
> > >
> > > it was to expect it to happen on xmca. There are too many topics there,
> > and
> > > not everyone will be interested. And if everyone is interested we are
> > still
> > > likely to wander off on anoth interesting, related, topics, chaining
> our
> > > way through time.
> > >
> > > But this time we need a product. This product, of course, may contain
> > > essays
> > >
> > > that argue that there is no such complementarity, and those too, would
> be
> > > welcome.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > To enable creation of such a product, based upon the materials turned
> up,
> > > discussed, and created in the discussion, Bruce has kindly set up for
> us
> > a
> > > new
> > >
> > > discussion list called xlsv-makh. The process of signining up begins
> with
> > > the url given by Bruce below. We are asking people to subscribe in a
> way
> > > that will allow
> > >
> > > us to keep out bots and provide an archive of the discussion including
> > the
> > > common study materials collected.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Bruce explains it this way.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >  Just tell people to go to https://mailman.ucsd.edu/mailm
> > > an/listinfo/xlsv-makh-l and follow the instructions for subscribing.
> > >
> > > Unsubscribing will be on the same web page.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > *NOTE: The https:// is a link for anyone whose file has lost the blue
> > > color
> > > of a live linke*
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I have signed up. Everyone is welcome. Please post to whatever lists
> you
> > >
> > > on that you think relevant, such as the AERA sig, ISCAR, etc.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > As a kind of introduction to the idea of the complementarity LSV and
> > MAKH I
> > > am attaching a paper by Gordon Wells. Its sore of a candidate for
> > starting
> > > discussion. Those uncertain of whether to sign up or not might check
> out
> > > the paper to see if you are interested.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Mike Cole
> > >
> >
>