[Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning from life experiences
WEBSTER, DAVID S.
d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk
Thu Nov 9 01:54:49 PST 2017
Collingwood rejected the realism of his student Oxford (1912-15/6) teachers but also rejected his identification by others as an idealist. Collingwood is a tricky read as he endeavours to keep his writing comprehensible to the educated lay public of his day while maintaining philosophical rigour. We are not talking about what philosophical stance any particular artist thinks they are adopting. Collingwood was a dialectical thinker and understood that categories move. What Collingwood means by 'gesture' is given by the broad context of his writings and not just as it appears to be given in any particular text.
-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg
Sent: 09 November 2017 09:18
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning from life experiences
Ulvi--
Can you give me an example of a "realist" piano sonata? Do you mean something like "4:22" by John Cage?
David Kellogg
On Thu, Nov 9, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
> I intended to mean that if a gesture, belonging to social reality, is
> a work of art, a realist artist, an artist who adopted realism as a
> literary approach, will conceive this gesture in real life as a work
> of art compared with any other artist who is not a realist one, who
> does not adopt realism in literature as a main approach for his artistic creation.
>
>
>
> On 9 November 2017 at 10:20, WEBSTER, DAVID S.
> <d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
> > This ought to be of interest - In the 'Principles of Art'
> > Collingwood writes that “[e]very utterance and every gesture that
> > each one of us makes is a work of art” (P. Art, 285). See
> > https://www.academia.edu/35044244/Landes_-_
> > Collingwoods_Difficult_Ethics_2010_APA_Paper_ for discussion
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> > mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Ulvi Içil
> > Sent: 08 November 2017 16:15
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning
> > from life experiences
> >
> > Thank you Beth.
> > I was just looking at your thesis which handles cognition, emotion,
> > imagination and creativity.
> >
> > Congratulations.
> >
> > Ulvi
> >
> > 8 Kas 2017 19:09 tarihinde "Beth Ferholt" <bferholt@gmail.com> yazdı:
> >
> > > To be clear -- combine these two USING the "going meta", Beth
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > > Before Mike introduced me to Vasilyuk -- who looks to Crime and
> > > Punishment
> > > > -- I thought the best place to go to think about a person's
> > > > life,
> > > formation
> > > > and learning with something similar to perezhivanie at the
> > > > center was Virginia Woolf, To the Lighthouse and The Waves especially.
> > > >
> > > > I think the question of whether or not autobiography or poetry
> > > > is the better place to look is very interesting, and a response
> > > > would have something to do with bodily sensations but also with
> > > > suicide because in suicide and some art you have an end point:
> > > > In autobiography you have the "I", I suppose, but you need to
> > > > have the
> > closure, too.
> > > >
> > > > I think you combine these two with the "going meta," and Woolf
> > > > shows herself thinking about thinking ... so this is why her
> > > > work is helpful
> > > here.
> > > > Beth
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> Thank you Robert!
> > > >>
> > > >> 8 Kas 2017 17:56 tarihinde "Robert Lake"
> > > >> <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
> > > >> yazdı:
> > > >>
> > > >> > Hi Andy, Ulvi and all!
> > > >> > Thank-you for connecting autobiography and perezhivanie. Back
> > > >> > in
> > > >> > 1984 before #meta became trendy,Jerome Bruner referred to
> > > >> > this with his students this way.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > There was also talk about how people go beyond merely knowing
> > > >> > about
> > > >> things
> > > >> > to reflecting upon them in order to effect correction and
> > > >> > self-repair
> > > —
> > > >> how
> > > >> > to get students to reflect, to turn around on themselves, to
> > > >> > go
> > > "meta,"
> > > >> to
> > > >> > think about their ways of thinking.
> > > >> > —"Notes on the Cognitive Revolution" (*Interchange*
> > > >> > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/h115766255987075/>, 1984.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > *Robert L.*
> > > >> >
> > > >> > Retrieved from :
> > > >> > https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/its-getting-
> > > >> > meta-all-the-time/
> > > >> >
> > > >> > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:09 PM, Andy Blunden
> > > >> > <ablunden@mira.net>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> >
> > > >> > > I think autobiography is a genre which is very rich for the
> > > >> > > study of perezhivanie; even the writing of the
> > > >> > > autobiography itself is a part of the perezhivanie, as the
> > > >> > > writer looks back over their life, and the experiences
> > > >> > > which have shaped them, reassessing how they responded to
> > > >> > > events intervening in their life and surviving. I think I
> > > >> > > mentioned Gorki's multi-volume autobiography to you,
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > Andy
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > > -----------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> > > -
> > > >> > > Andy Blunden
> > > >> > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> > > >> > > On 7/11/2017 6:28 AM, Ulvi İçil wrote:
> > > >> > > > Also the following "survival of culture" theme is said to
> > > >> > > > be a
> > > >> > principal
> > > >> > > > worry for Marina Tsvetaeva by this same Turkish professor
> > > >> > > > on Russian language and
> > > literature...
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Anyway, another method to study "perezhivanie", I
> > > >> > > > believe, is to
> > > >> look
> > > >> > > into
> > > >> > > > theses on the life of such Russian poets, even if they do
> > > >> > > > not use
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > > concept,
> > > >> > > > we can be sure that there is a lot of "perezhivanie" in
> > > >> > > > those
> > > >> > theses...
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > probably because poets are the best human beings to study
> > > >> > "perezhivanie"
> > > >> > > > for reasons easy to conceive.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > Especially when we think to Mayakovsky, Yesenin,
> > > >> > > > Tsvetaeva...who
> > > all
> > > >> > > > suicided, unfortunately.
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > > On 6 November 2017 at 21:14, Ulvi İçil
> > > >> > > > <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> > > wrote:
> > > >> > > >
> > > >> > > >> It seems to me that the concept perezhivanie is a sine
> > > >> > > >> qua non
> > > >> concept
> > > >> > > for
> > > >> > > >> studying the lives and works of poets especially:
> > > >> > > >> Pushkin, and
> > > many
> > > >> > > others.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> I would say that a poet's life and work can not and
> > > >> > > >> should not be
> > > >> > > studied
> > > >> > > >> without this concept.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> Completely impossible.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> For instance, for Pushkin, a poem is a magical union of
> > > >> > > >> sounds,
> > > >> > thoughts
> > > >> > > >> and feelings, which fits completely with intellect and
> > > >> > > >> affect,
> > > >> > cognition
> > > >> > > >> and emotion.
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> In case of some other poets, I would add "colours"
> > > >> > > >> because for
> > > >> > instance,
> > > >> > > >> Nazim Hikmet (who is said to see the world in colours)
> > > >> > > >> says that
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > >> closest poet to him is Eluard and there is a thesis on
> > > >> > > >> colour in
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > poems
> > > >> > > >> of Eluard and Hikmet. (May this mean Pushkin was more
> > > >> > > >> sensitive
> > > to
> > > >> > > sounds
> > > >> > > >> than colours? An outstanding Turkish professor on
> > > >> > > >> Russian
> > > language
> > > >> and
> > > >> > > >> literature told me that there is not slightest deviation
> > > >> > > >> of rythm
> > > >> in
> > > >> > > >> Pushkin whereas there is in all others)
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> Do we know any example of any such study in Russian
> > > >> > > >> databases? A
> > > >> poet
> > > >> > > >> studied with "perezhivanie".
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >> On 4 November 2017 at 14:02, Andy Blunden
> > > >> > > >> <ablunden@mira.net>
> > > >> wrote:
> > > >> > > >>
> > > >> > > >>> I would recommend Vasilyuk, but AN Leontyev should be
> > > >> > > >>> read as well:
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Fedor%
> > > 20Vasilyuk.pdf
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Fedor%
> > > 20Vasilyuk.pdf
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> Andy
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > > >>> -------------------------------------------------------
> > > >> > > >>> ----
> > > >> > > >>> -
> > > >> > > >>> Andy Blunden
> > > >> > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> > > >> > > >>> On 4/11/2017 10:41 PM, Ulvi İçil wrote:
> > > >> > > >>>> Dear all,
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>> For a study on Turkish poet, also a painter and
> > > >> > > >>>> playwright,
> > > Nazim
> > > >> > > >>> Hikmet,
> > > >> > > >>>> whom learning seems to be heavily determined from life
> > > >> experiences
> > > >> > at
> > > >> > > >>> each
> > > >> > > >>>> stage of his life,
> > > >> > > >>>> I am looking for a best theoretical approach in
> > > >> > > >>>> general on
> > > >> learning
> > > >> > > from
> > > >> > > >>>> life experiences, then more specifically for such
> > > >> > > >>>> great poets,
> > > >> > > painters
> > > >> > > >>> and
> > > >> > > >>>> play writers.
> > > >> > > >>>> Just to give a closer idea, please look at the section
> > > >> > > >>>> below
> > > from
> > > >> > his
> > > >> > > >>>> novel, Life's good, brother.
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>> I appreciate highly any idea, proposal on such a
> > > >> > > >>>> theoretical
> > > >> > approach.
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>> Thank you.
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>> Ulvi
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>> I sat down at the table in the Hôtel de France in
> > > >> > > >>>> Batum. A
> > > table
> > > >> > with
> > > >> > > >>>> carved legs—not just the legs but the whole gilded
> > > >> > > >>>> oval table
> > > was
> > > >> > > >>> covered
> > > >> > > >>>> with intricate carvings. Rococo . . . In the seaside
> > > >> > > >>>> house in
> > > >> > > Üsküdar, a
> > > >> > > >>>> rococo
> > > >> > > >>>> table sits in the guestroom. Ro-co-co . . . The
> > > >> > > >>>> journey I made
> > > >> from
> > > >> > > the
> > > >> > > >>>> Black
> > > >> > > >>>> Sea coast to Ankara, then from there to Bolu, the
> > > >> thirty-five-day,
> > > >> > > >>>> thirty-fiveyear
> > > >> > > >>>> journey on foot to the town where I taught school—in
> > > >> > > >>>> short, to
> > > >> make
> > > >> > a
> > > >> > > >>>> long story short, the encounter of a pasha’s
> > > >> > > >>>> descendant—more
> > > >> > > precisely,
> > > >> > > >>> a
> > > >> > > >>>> grandson—with Anatolia now rests on the rococo table
> > > >> > > >>>> in the
> > > >> Hôtel de
> > > >> > > >>>> France in Batum, spread out over the table like a
> > > >> > > >>>> tattered,
> > > >> dirty,
> > > >> > > >>>> blood-stained
> > > >> > > >>>> block-print cloth. I look, and I want to cry. I look,
> > > >> > > >>>> and my
> > > >> blood
> > > >> > > >>> rushes
> > > >> > > >>>> to my
> > > >> > > >>>> head in rage. I look, and I’m ashamed again. Of the
> > > >> > > >>>> house by
> > > the
> > > >> sea
> > > >> > > in
> > > >> > > >>>> Üsküdar. Decide, son, I say to myself, decide. The
> > > >> > > >>>> decision was
> > > >> > made:
> > > >> > > >>> death
> > > >> > > >>>> before turning back. Wait, don’t rush, son. Let’s put
> > > >> > > >>>> the
> > > >> questions
> > > >> > on
> > > >> > > >>> this
> > > >> > > >>>> table, right next to Anatolia here. What can you
> > > >> > > >>>> sacrifice for
> > > >> this
> > > >> > > >>> cause?
> > > >> > > >>>> What
> > > >> > > >>>> can you give? Everything. Everything I have. Your freedom?
> > Yes!
> > > >> How
> > > >> > > >>>> many years can you rot in prison for this cause? All
> > > >> > > >>>> my life,
> > > if
> > > >> > > >>> necessary!
> > > >> > > >>>> Yes, but you like women, fine dining, nice clothes.
> > > >> > > >>>> You can’t
> > > >> wait
> > > >> > to
> > > >> > > >>>> travel,
> > > >> > > >>>> to see Europe, Asia, America, Africa. If you just
> > > >> > > >>>> leave
> > > Anatolia
> > > >> > here
> > > >> > > on
> > > >> > > >>>> this
> > > >> > > >>>> rococo table in Batum and go from Tbilisi to Kars and
> > > >> > > >>>> back to
> > > >> Ankara
> > > >> > > >>> from
> > > >> > > >>>> there, in five or six years you’ll be a senator, a
> > > >> minister—women,
> > > >> > > >>> wining
> > > >> > > >>>> and
> > > >> > > >>>> dining, art, the whole world. No! If necessary, I can
> > > >> > > >>>> spend my
> > > >> whole
> > > >> > > >>> life in
> > > >> > > >>>> prison. Okay, but what about getting hanged, killed,
> > > >> > > >>>> or drowned
> > > >> like
> > > >> > > >>> Mustafa
> > > >> > > >>>> Suphi and his friends if I become a Communist—didn’t
> > > >> > > >>>> you ask
> > > >> > yourself
> > > >> > > >>> these
> > > >> > > >>>> questions in Batum? I did. I asked myself, Are you
> > > >> > > >>>> afraid of
> > > >> being
> > > >> > > >>>> killed? I’m not afraid, I said. Just like that,
> > > >> > > >>>> without
> > > thinking?
> > > >> > No.
> > > >> > > I
> > > >> > > >>>> first knew
> > > >> > > >>>> I was afraid, then I knew I wasn’t. Okay, are you
> > > >> > > >>>> ready to be
> > > >> > > disabled,
> > > >> > > >>>> crippled, or made deaf for this cause? I asked. And
> > > >> > > >>>> TB, heart
> > > >> > disease,
> > > >> > > >>>> blindness? Blindness? Blindness . . . Wait a minute—I
> > > >> > > >>>> hadn’t
> > > >> thought
> > > >> > > >>> about
> > > >> > > >>>> going blind for this cause. I got up. I shut my eyes
> > > >> > > >>>> tight and
> > > >> > walked
> > > >> > > >>> around
> > > >> > > >>>> the room. Feeling the furniture with my hands, I
> > > >> > > >>>> walked around
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > room
> > > >> > > >>> in
> > > >> > > >>>> the darkness of my closed eyes. Twice I stumbled, but
> > > >> > > >>>> I didn’t
> > > >> open
> > > >> > my
> > > >> > > >>> eyes.
> > > >> > > >>>> Then I stopped at the table. I opened my eyes. Yes, I
> > > >> > > >>>> can
> > > accept
> > > >> > > >>> blindness.
> > > >> > > >>>> Maybe I was a bit childish, a little comical. But this
> > > >> > > >>>> is the
> > > >> truth.
> > > >> > > Not
> > > >> > > >>>> books or
> > > >> > > >>>> word-of-mouth propaganda or my social condition
> > > >> > > >>>> brought me
> > > where
> > > >> I
> > > >> > am.
> > > >> > > >>>> Anatolia brought me where I am. The Anatolia I had
> > > >> > > >>>> seen only on
> > > >> the
> > > >> > > >>>> surface, from the outside. My heart brought me where I am.
> > > That’s
> > > >> > how
> > > >> > > >>> it is
> > > >> > > >>>> .
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>>
> > > >> > > >>>
> > > >> > >
> > > >> > >
> > > >> >
> > > >> >
> > > >> > --
> > > >> > Robert Lake Ed.D.
> > > >> > Associate Professor
> > > >> > Social Foundations of Education Dept. of Curriculum,
> > > >> > Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern University P. O.
> > > >> > Box 8144, Statesboro, GA 30460 Co-editor of *Review of
> > > >> > Education, Pedagogy, and Cultural Studies,*
> > > >> vol.39,
> > > >> > 2017
> > > >> > Special issue: Maxine Greene and the Pedagogy of Social
> Imagination:
> > > An
> > > >> > Intellectual Genealogy.
> > > >> >
> > > >> > http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/gred20/39/1
> > > >> > Webpage:
> > > >> > https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Democracy
> > > >> must be
> > > >> > born anew in every generation, and education is its midwife.*
> > > >> > John Dewey-*Democracy and Education*,1916, p. 139
> > > >> >
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > Beth Ferholt
> > > > Associate Professor
> > > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn
> > > > College, City University of New York
> > > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > > >
> > > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Beth Ferholt
> > > Associate Professor
> > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College,
> > > City University of New York
> > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > >
> > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > >
> >
> >
>
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