[Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning from life experiences

Thu Nov 9 00:59:58 PST 2017

Not me either; clarification very welcome! Also, I haven't read Collingwood, but if anyone has a thought, in which way would a gesture be a work of art, or a work of art a gesture? Can a gesture be a 'work', and can work be a gesture?

Alfredo   
________________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of WEBSTER, DAVID S. <d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk>
Sent: 09 November 2017 09:54
To: 'eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity'
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning from life experiences

Sorry I do not get what this last contribution is try to say...

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Ulvi Içil
Sent: 09 November 2017 08:31
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning from life experiences

especially if the writer conceives himself a realist, a "socialist realist"
without identifying himself with some "dry" aspects of it in socialist literature, distancing himself rom triumphalism etc

On 9 November 2017 at 10:20, WEBSTER, DAVID S. <d.s.webster@durham.ac.uk>
wrote:

> This ought to be of interest  - In the 'Principles of Art'
> Collingwood writes that “[e]very utterance and every gesture that each
> one of us makes is a work of art” (P. Art, 285). See
> https://www.academia.edu/35044244/Landes_-_
> Collingwoods_Difficult_Ethics_2010_APA_Paper_ for discussion
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Ulvi Içil
> Sent: 08 November 2017 16:15
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Best possible theoretical approach on learning
> from life experiences
>
> Thank you Beth.
> I was just looking at your thesis which handles cognition, emotion,
> imagination and creativity.
>
> Congratulations.
>
> Ulvi
>
> 8 Kas 2017 19:09 tarihinde "Beth Ferholt" <bferholt@gmail.com> yazdı:
>
> > To be clear -- combine these two USING the "going meta", Beth
> >
> > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 10:58 AM, Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Before Mike introduced me to Vasilyuk -- who looks to Crime and
> > Punishment
> > > -- I thought the best place to go to think about a person's life,
> > formation
> > > and learning with something similar to perezhivanie at the center
> > > was Virginia Woolf, To the Lighthouse and The Waves especially.
> > >
> > > I think the question of whether or not autobiography or poetry is
> > > the better place to look is very interesting, and a response would
> > > have something to do with bodily sensations but also with suicide
> > > because in suicide and some art you have an end point: In
> > > autobiography you have the "I", I suppose, but you need to have
> > > the
> closure, too.
> > >
> > > I think you combine these two with the "going meta," and Woolf
> > > shows herself thinking about thinking ... so this is why her work
> > > is helpful
> > here.
> > > Beth
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On Wed, Nov 8, 2017 at 9:58 AM, Ulvi İçil <ulvi.icil@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thank you Robert!
> > >>
> > >> 8 Kas 2017 17:56 tarihinde "Robert Lake"
> > >> <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
> > >> yazdı:
> > >>
> > >> > Hi Andy, Ulvi and all!
> > >> > Thank-you for connecting autobiography and perezhivanie. Back
> > >> > in
> > >> > 1984 before #meta became trendy,Jerome Bruner referred to this
> > >> > with his students this way.
> > >> > 
> > >> > There was also talk about how people go beyond merely knowing
> > >> > about
> > >> things
> > >> > to reflecting upon them in order to effect correction and
> > >> > self-repair
> > —
> > >> how
> > >> > to get students to reflect, to turn around on themselves, to go
> > "meta,"
> > >> to
> > >> > think about their ways of thinking.
> > >> > —"Notes on the Cognitive Revolution" (*Interchange*
> > >> > <http://www.springerlink.com/content/h115766255987075/>, 1984.
> > >> >
> > >> > *Robert L.*
> > >> >
> > >> > Retrieved from :
> > >> > https://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/its-getting-
> > >> > meta-all-the-time/
> > >> >
> > >> > On Mon, Nov 6, 2017 at 8:09 PM, Andy Blunden
> > >> > <ablunden@mira.net>
> > wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > I think autobiography is a genre which is very rich for the
> > >> > > study of perezhivanie; even the writing of the autobiography
> > >> > > itself is a part of the perezhivanie, as the writer looks
> > >> > > back over their life, and the experiences which have shaped
> > >> > > them, reassessing how they responded to events intervening in
> > >> > > their life and surviving. I think I mentioned Gorki's
> > >> > > multi-volume autobiography to you,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > Andy
> > >> > >
> > >> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > Andy Blunden
> > >> > > http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> > >> > > On 7/11/2017 6:28 AM, Ulvi İçil wrote:
> > >> > > > Also the following "survival of culture" theme is said to
> > >> > > > be a
> > >> > principal
> > >> > > > worry for Marina Tsvetaeva
> > >> > > > by this same Turkish professor on Russian language and
> > literature...
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Anyway, another method to study "perezhivanie", I believe,
> > >> > > > is to
> > >> look
> > >> > > into
> > >> > > > theses on the life of such Russian poets, even if they do
> > >> > > > not use
> > >> the
> > >> > > > concept,
> > >> > > > we can be sure that there is a lot of  "perezhivanie" in
> > >> > > > those
> > >> > theses...
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > probably because poets are the best human beings to study
> > >> > "perezhivanie"
> > >> > > > for reasons easy to conceive.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > Especially when we think to Mayakovsky, Yesenin,
> > >> > > > Tsvetaeva...who
> > all
> > >> > > > suicided, unfortunately.
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > > On 6 November 2017 at 21:14, Ulvi İçil
> > >> > > > <ulvi.icil@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> > >> > > >
> > >> > > >> It seems to me that the concept perezhivanie is a sine qua
> > >> > > >> non
> > >> concept
> > >> > > for
> > >> > > >> studying the lives and works of poets especially: Pushkin,
> > >> > > >> and
> > many
> > >> > > others.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> I would say that a poet's life and work can not and should
> > >> > > >> not be
> > >> > > studied
> > >> > > >> without this concept.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Completely impossible.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> For instance, for Pushkin, a poem is a magical union of
> > >> > > >> sounds,
> > >> > thoughts
> > >> > > >> and feelings, which fits completely with intellect and
> > >> > > >> affect,
> > >> > cognition
> > >> > > >> and emotion.
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> In case of some other poets, I would add "colours" because
> > >> > > >> for
> > >> > instance,
> > >> > > >> Nazim Hikmet (who is said to see the world in colours)
> > >> > > >> says that
> > >> the
> > >> > > >> closest poet to him is Eluard and there is a thesis on
> > >> > > >> colour in
> > >> the
> > >> > > poems
> > >> > > >> of Eluard and Hikmet. (May this mean Pushkin was more
> > >> > > >> sensitive
> > to
> > >> > > sounds
> > >> > > >> than colours? An outstanding Turkish professor on Russian
> > language
> > >> and
> > >> > > >> literature told me that there is not slightest deviation
> > >> > > >> of rythm
> > >> in
> > >> > > >> Pushkin whereas there is in all others)
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> Do we know any example of any such study in Russian
> > >> > > >> databases? A
> > >> poet
> > >> > > >> studied with "perezhivanie".
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >> On 4 November 2017 at 14:02, Andy Blunden
> > >> > > >> <ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> wrote:
> > >> > > >>
> > >> > > >>> I would recommend Vasilyuk, but AN Leontyev should be
> > >> > > >>> read as well:
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Fedor%
> > 20Vasilyuk.pdf
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/pdfs/Fedor%
> > 20Vasilyuk.pdf
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> Andy
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > > >>> ---------------------------------------------------------
> > >> > > >>> --
> > >> > > >>> -
> > >> > > >>> Andy Blunden
> > >> > > >>> http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
> > >> > > >>> On 4/11/2017 10:41 PM, Ulvi İçil wrote:
> > >> > > >>>> Dear all,
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> For a study on Turkish poet, also a painter and
> > >> > > >>>> playwright,
> > Nazim
> > >> > > >>> Hikmet,
> > >> > > >>>> whom learning seems to be heavily determined from life
> > >> experiences
> > >> > at
> > >> > > >>> each
> > >> > > >>>> stage of his life,
> > >> > > >>>> I am looking for a best theoretical approach in general
> > >> > > >>>> on
> > >> learning
> > >> > > from
> > >> > > >>>> life experiences, then more specifically for such great
> > >> > > >>>> poets,
> > >> > > painters
> > >> > > >>> and
> > >> > > >>>> play writers.
> > >> > > >>>> Just to give a closer idea, please look at the section
> > >> > > >>>> below
> > from
> > >> > his
> > >> > > >>>> novel, Life's good, brother.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> I appreciate highly any idea, proposal on such a
> > >> > > >>>> theoretical
> > >> > approach.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Thank you.
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> Ulvi
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>> I sat down at the table in the Hôtel de France in Batum.
> > >> > > >>>> A
> > table
> > >> > with
> > >> > > >>>> carved legs—not just the legs but the whole gilded oval
> > >> > > >>>> table
> > was
> > >> > > >>> covered
> > >> > > >>>> with intricate carvings. Rococo . . . In the seaside
> > >> > > >>>> house in
> > >> > > Üsküdar, a
> > >> > > >>>> rococo
> > >> > > >>>> table sits in the guestroom. Ro-co-co . . . The journey
> > >> > > >>>> I made
> > >> from
> > >> > > the
> > >> > > >>>> Black
> > >> > > >>>> Sea coast to Ankara, then from there to Bolu, the
> > >> thirty-five-day,
> > >> > > >>>> thirty-fiveyear
> > >> > > >>>> journey on foot to the town where I taught school—in
> > >> > > >>>> short, to
> > >> make
> > >> > a
> > >> > > >>>> long story short, the encounter of a pasha’s
> > >> > > >>>> descendant—more
> > >> > > precisely,
> > >> > > >>> a
> > >> > > >>>> grandson—with Anatolia now rests on the rococo table in
> > >> > > >>>> the
> > >> Hôtel de
> > >> > > >>>> France in Batum, spread out over the table like a
> > >> > > >>>> tattered,
> > >> dirty,
> > >> > > >>>> blood-stained
> > >> > > >>>> block-print cloth. I look, and I want to cry. I look,
> > >> > > >>>> and my
> > >> blood
> > >> > > >>> rushes
> > >> > > >>>> to my
> > >> > > >>>> head in rage. I look, and I’m ashamed again. Of the
> > >> > > >>>> house by
> > the
> > >> sea
> > >> > > in
> > >> > > >>>> Üsküdar. Decide, son, I say to myself, decide. The
> > >> > > >>>> decision was
> > >> > made:
> > >> > > >>> death
> > >> > > >>>> before turning back. Wait, don’t rush, son. Let’s put
> > >> > > >>>> the
> > >> questions
> > >> > on
> > >> > > >>> this
> > >> > > >>>> table, right next to Anatolia here. What can you
> > >> > > >>>> sacrifice for
> > >> this
> > >> > > >>> cause?
> > >> > > >>>> What
> > >> > > >>>> can you give? Everything. Everything I have. Your freedom?
> Yes!
> > >> How
> > >> > > >>>> many years can you rot in prison for this cause? All my
> > >> > > >>>> life,
> > if
> > >> > > >>> necessary!
> > >> > > >>>> Yes, but you like women, fine dining, nice clothes. You
> > >> > > >>>> can’t
> > >> wait
> > >> > to
> > >> > > >>>> travel,
> > >> > > >>>> to see Europe, Asia, America, Africa. If you just leave
> > Anatolia
> > >> > here
> > >> > > on
> > >> > > >>>> this
> > >> > > >>>> rococo table in Batum and go from Tbilisi to Kars and
> > >> > > >>>> back to
> > >> Ankara
> > >> > > >>> from
> > >> > > >>>> there, in five or six years you’ll be a senator, a
> > >> minister—women,
> > >> > > >>> wining
> > >> > > >>>> and
> > >> > > >>>> dining, art, the whole world. No! If necessary, I can
> > >> > > >>>> spend my
> > >> whole
> > >> > > >>> life in
> > >> > > >>>> prison. Okay, but what about getting hanged, killed, or
> > >> > > >>>> drowned
> > >> like
> > >> > > >>> Mustafa
> > >> > > >>>> Suphi and his friends if I become a Communist—didn’t you
> > >> > > >>>> ask
> > >> > yourself
> > >> > > >>> these
> > >> > > >>>> questions in Batum? I did. I asked myself, Are you
> > >> > > >>>> afraid of
> > >> being
> > >> > > >>>> killed? I’m not afraid, I said. Just like that, without
> > thinking?
> > >> > No.
> > >> > > I
> > >> > > >>>> first knew
> > >> > > >>>> I was afraid, then I knew I wasn’t. Okay, are you ready
> > >> > > >>>> to be
> > >> > > disabled,
> > >> > > >>>> crippled, or made deaf for this cause? I asked. And TB,
> > >> > > >>>> heart
> > >> > disease,
> > >> > > >>>> blindness? Blindness? Blindness . . . Wait a minute—I
> > >> > > >>>> hadn’t
> > >> thought
> > >> > > >>> about
> > >> > > >>>> going blind for this cause. I got up. I shut my eyes
> > >> > > >>>> tight and
> > >> > walked
> > >> > > >>> around
> > >> > > >>>> the room. Feeling the furniture with my hands, I walked
> > >> > > >>>> around
> > >> the
> > >> > > room
> > >> > > >>> in
> > >> > > >>>> the darkness of my closed eyes. Twice I stumbled, but I
> > >> > > >>>> didn’t
> > >> open
> > >> > my
> > >> > > >>> eyes.
> > >> > > >>>> Then I stopped at the table. I opened my eyes. Yes, I
> > >> > > >>>> can
> > accept
> > >> > > >>> blindness.
> > >> > > >>>> Maybe I was a bit childish, a little comical. But this
> > >> > > >>>> is the
> > >> truth.
> > >> > > Not
> > >> > > >>>> books or
> > >> > > >>>> word-of-mouth propaganda or my social condition brought
> > >> > > >>>> me
> > where
> > >> I
> > >> > am.
> > >> > > >>>> Anatolia brought me where I am. The Anatolia I had seen
> > >> > > >>>> only on
> > >> the
> > >> > > >>>> surface, from the outside. My heart brought me where I am.
> > That’s
> > >> > how
> > >> > > >>> it is
> > >> > > >>>> .
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>>
> > >> > > >>>
> > >> > >
> > >> > >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > --
> > >> > Robert Lake  Ed.D.
> > >> > Associate Professor
> > >> > Social Foundations of Education Dept. of Curriculum,
> > >> > Foundations, and Reading Georgia Southern University P. O. Box
> > >> > 8144, Statesboro, GA  30460 Co-editor of *Review of Education,
> > >> > Pedagogy, and Cultural Studies,*
> > >> vol.39,
> > >> > 2017
> > >> > Special issue: Maxine Greene and the Pedagogy of Social Imagination:
> > An
> > >> > Intellectual Genealogy.
> > >> >
> > >> >  http://www.tandfonline.com/toc/gred20/39/1
> > >> > Webpage:
> > >> > https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Democracy
> > >> must be
> > >> > born anew in every generation, and education is its midwife.*
> > >> > John Dewey-*Democracy and Education*,1916, p. 139
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Beth Ferholt
> > > Associate Professor
> > > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College,
> > > City University of New York
> > > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> > >
> > > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Beth Ferholt
> > Associate Professor
> > Department of Early Childhood and Art Education Brooklyn College,
> > City University of New York
> > 2900 Bedford Avenue
> > Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
> >
> > Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> > Phone: (718) 951-5205
> > Fax: (718) 951-4816
> >
>
>