[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel's notion of The Notion

[Andy Blunden]

Not at all, Greg. I just appreciated that you were turning 
to *read Hegel* to get your answers and I was giving you 
time for that. Let me see ...

    Q: This seems core to the kind of realism that Hegel is
    building up (a realism of concepts) and, I think,
    remains a revolutionary conception today. The idea here
    seems to be that the Notion is not a "subjective
    presupposition" but is rather much more real than that.
    But, I guess I'm wondering HOW can this be?

Yes, utterly realistic. We live in a world in which people 
share, more or less, a great range of beliefs and 
importantly act according to those beliefs, so, objectively, 
this world is one of activities, including the artefacts 
incorporated in those activities. The unit of all that 
activity is concepts rather than things or acts. Each 
concept is implicit in an aggregate of actions functioning 
as the object of the activity. If you think that I am just 
making this up to make it sound like Activity Theory, have a 
look at this paper which includes an extended quote from a 
Finnish Hegelian who knows nothing about Activity Theory and 
hates Marxism. 
https://www.academia.edu/30657582/Response_to_Heikki_Ik%C3%A4heimo_on_Normative_Essentialism_ 
- the quote begins on the first page.

    Q: There are multiple objections, but perhaps the
    biggest objection comes from 20th century social
    science's preoccupation with social construction. In
    this tradition, concepts are things held in the head,
    subjective and maybe also intersubjective, but always
    mediated (and some might say "derivative"). Hegel seems
    to be offering a much different take - one in which
    concepts are much more primary. Am I right here?

Yes, Hegel is sometimes called an "objective idealist." 
Ideas or thought is something which exists in the world and 
only as a result of that are thinkers able to grasp. The 
idea of Zeitgeist is well-known and I don't see it as 
problematic, and just broaden that to Geist and you have 
what Hegel is talking about, literally.

    Q: And, what is this business about the "sublation of
    mediation"?

Everything Hegel says is very general, so it's hard to 
paraphrase him without degrading his idea. But think of 
this. A new practice (or technical tool, or word) is 
invented in response to some situation; it then becomes part 
of the world, and new situations. That's what he means. In 
my answer to Q1 above there is obviously a chicken-and-egg 
situation: activity is conscious, but the content of 
consciousness is objective activity. Sublation of mediation 
responds to that chicken-and-egg problem.

Does that help?
Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making 

On 13/05/2017 5:27 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> Andy,
> So does your response mean that all of my questions in my 
> previous post are non-starters?
> -greg
>
> On Thu, May 11, 2017 at 9:48 AM, Andy Blunden 
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>     Concepts are first of all things which exist; because
>     they exist, the mind is capable of grasping them, in
>     fact, they are exactly the way the mind grasps the
>     world (etymologically concept = to grasp). The way
>     they exist is in human activity and the artifacts we
>     use in that activity. Since you have made a start on
>     this Greg, I have to say that I think you need this
>     and also the section to follow called "The Subjective
>     Notion" to get a decent picture.
>
>     Andy
>
>     ------------------------------------------------------------
>     Andy Blunden
>     http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>     http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>     <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
>     On 12/05/2017 1:40 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>     ​Okay Andy, I've started into the Hegel text that you
>>     suggested (I don't think you truly appreciate how
>>     slow of a reader I am! BTW, the text Andy shared can
>>     be found here:
>>     https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hl/hlnotion.htm
>>     <https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/hegel/works/hl/hlnotion.htm>),
>>     and I came across this notion of The Notion by Hegel
>>     in Section 1279:
>>
>>     "Now although it is true that the Notion is to be
>>     regarded, not merely as a subjective presupposition
>>     but as the /absolute foundation/, yet it can be so
>>     only in so far as it has /made/ itself the
>>     foundation. Abstract immediacy is no doubt a /first/;
>>     yet in so far as it is abstract it is, on the
>>     contrary mediated, and therefore if it is to be
>>     grasped in its truth its foundation must first be
>>     sought. Hence this foundation, though indeed an
>>     immediate, must have made itself immediate through
>>     the sublation of mediation."​
>>
>>     This seems core to the kind of realism that Hegel is
>>     building up (a realism of concepts) and, I think,
>>     remains a revolutionary conception today. The idea
>>     here seems to be that the Notion is not a "subjective
>>     presupposition" but is rather much more real than
>>     that. But, I guess I'm wondering HOW can this be?
>>
>>     There are multiple objections, but perhaps the
>>     biggest objection comes from 20th century social
>>     science's preoccupation with social construction. In
>>     this tradition, concepts are things held in the head,
>>     subjective and maybe also intersubjective, but always
>>     mediated (and some might say "derivative"). Hegel
>>     seems to be offering a much different take - one in
>>     which concepts are much more primary. Am I right here?
>>
>>     And, what is this business about the "sublation of
>>     mediation"? (and where does this last bit jibe with
>>     CHAT? Many people in CHAT speak of mediation but I
>>     don't recall anyone speaking of the "sublation of
>>     mediation").
>>
>>     Any help with this text would be appreciated.
>>
>>     (and this is closely related to "the stuff of words"
>>     but I still felt that this needed a new thread.).
>>
>>     -greg
>>
>>     -- 
>>     Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>     Assistant Professor
>>     Department of Anthropology
>>     880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>     Brigham Young University
>>     Provo, UT 84602
>>     http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>     <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
>
>
>
>
> -- 
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson