[Xmca-l] Re: The Mathematics of Mathematics

Tue Mar 14 13:04:13 PDT 2017

Mike, here the paragraph from the Russian edition of vol. 3 (German
Ideology), where Vygotsky got the quoted materials:

Но и им человек обладает в виде «чистого» сознания не с самого начала. На
«духе» с самого начала лежит проклятие - быть «отягощённым» материей,
которая выступает здесь в виде движущихся слоев воздуха, звуков - словом, в
виде языка. Язык так же древен, как и сознание; язык есть практическое,
существующее и для других людей и лишь тем самым существующее также и для
меня самого, действительное сознание, и, подобно сознанию, язык возникает
лишь из потребности, из настоятельной необходимости общения с другими
людьми**.

And here from page 11 of the foreword, to which I referred earlier, about
the design of a dialectical materialist psychology

Выясняя сущность и роль мышления, умственных потребностей, интересов,
влечений и эмоций человека, показывая, что решающие причины их изменения и
развития заключаются в материальной жизни общества, Маркс и Энгельс
закладывают основы марксистской, диалектико-материалистической психологии.

and here Vygotsky:
Кто оторвал мышление с самого начала от аффекта, тот навсегда закрыл себе
дорогу к объяснению причинамого мышления, потому что детерминистический
анализ мышления необхо-димо предполагает вскрытие движущих мотивов мысли,
потребностей и интересов, побуждений и тенденций, которые направляют
движение мысли в ту или другую сторону.

Cheers,

Michael

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
Applied Cognitive Science
MacLaurin Building A567
University of Victoria
Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>

New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
<https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*

On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 12:37 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote:

> You also might find interesting that on page X of the German version of
> the *Ideology*, in the introduction by the Central Committee, there is a
> phrase on the function of thinking, the "needs, interests, inclinations,
> and feelings of man...", which you can easily relate to the introduction of *Thinking
> and Speech*, where Vygotsky writes about the fundamental problem of
> psychology. I don't know whether Vygotsky read the German version (1932) or
> the Russian (1933), but much of what he writes in the last 2 paragraphs of
> the book (3 paragraphs in the English translations, 1986, 1987), the
> "bigger problem" of conscioussnes, and parts of the first chapter, are
> "inspired" by the *Ideology*. Michael
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> --------------------
> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
> Applied Cognitive Science
> MacLaurin Building A567
> University of Victoria
> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>
> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
>
> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 12:29 PM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike, there are parts of the text in Vygotsky (Thinking and speech),
>> which, in the original (1934, also the 2005 compilation, the German
>> version), have quotation marks. In the English translation the quotation
>> marks have disappeared (as in the 1984 Russian version). Also disappeared
>> has the paraphrase of consciousness being cursed by matter, which is in the
>> original, but which has been purged from the later Russian and all English
>> translations.
>>
>> Anton and someone else have published a piece with all the changes that
>> have been implemented with respect to the 1934 publication.
>>
>> I am pasting here from the original. You see the quotation marks. The
>> green part is about the curse of matter on consciousness, which is missing
>> in the English versions. The quotations are from Marx and Engels, *The
>> German Ideology*, at least the German and Russian version. (Not all
>> English translations do justice to the reference publications by the
>> Institute for Marxism-Leninism, which was published in Moscow in German,
>> 1932, and Russian, 1933):
>>
>> Если «язык так же древен, как сознание», если «язык и есть практическое,
>> существующее для других людей, а следовательно, и для меня самого, сознание
>> », если «проклятие материи, проклятие движущихся слоев воздухазначально
>> тяготеет над чистым сознанием», то очевидно, что
>> Hope this helps.
>>
>> Michael
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> --------------------
>> Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>> Applied Cognitive Science
>> MacLaurin Building A567
>> University of Victoria
>> Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>> http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>>
>> New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
>> <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
>>
>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 12:09 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>>
>>> What Marx quotations are those who have access only to the English
>>> translation missing, Michael?
>>>
>>> mike
>>>
>>> On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 11:12 AM, Wolff-Michael Roth <
>>> wolffmichael.roth@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> > Carol,
>>> >
>>> > the key point is to look at that in what people do that lets
>>> mathematicians
>>> > see that something mathematically is happening. The genetic origin of
>>> that
>>> > --- like *mathematical *reasoning first IS a social relation (not IN
>>> > relation, which is the social in a weak sense). I am developing some
>>> of the
>>> > ideas that Vygotsky sketched in the last chapter of thinking and speech
>>> > (including the Marx quotations, the marks of which have been removed
>>> from
>>> > all English translations, and paraphrases. I am situating this in a
>>> > Marxian-Spinozist perspective, not the dualist Spinoza that some say he
>>> > was, but the one who emphasized the plural singular or singular plural
>>> > nature of being. And thus the Vygotsky who writes in his personal notes
>>> > about "affect in concept," the Vygotsky who seeks to develop a A
>>> Spinozist
>>> > approach to Marxian psychology etc etc. I am copying the contents and
>>> the
>>> > cover below.
>>> >
>>> > Cheers,
>>> > Michael
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Preface vii
>>> > 1 Vygotsky’s Marxist-Spinozist Re/Orientations 1
>>> > 2 The Thinking Body 33
>>> > 3 The Mathematics of Mathematics 55
>>> > 4 Sociogenesis 77
>>> > 5 Intra-Intersubjective Field 101
>>> > 6 Pereživanie – Experience 131
>>> > 7 Affect and Emotion 151
>>> > 8 Obučenie – Teaching | Learning 179
>>> > 9 Mathematics in the Drama of Life 197
>>> > 10 Overcoming Dualism 217
>>> > Appendix 225
>>> > References 227
>>> > Index 233
>>> >
>>> > [image: Inline image 1]
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>>> > --------------------
>>> > Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor
>>> > Applied Cognitive Science
>>> > MacLaurin Building A567
>>> > University of Victoria
>>> > Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
>>> > http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>
>>> >
>>> > New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
>>> > <https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-
>>> > directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-
>>> > mathematics-of-mathematics/>*
>>> >
>>> > On Tue, Mar 14, 2017 at 8:38 AM, Carol Macdonald <
>>> carolmacdon@gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > > Wolff-Michael Roth's new book has just come to my notice.
>>> > >
>>> > > Wolff-Michael, would you like to explain a bit to our whole
>>> community?
>>> > It
>>> > > looks very interesting indeed.
>>> > >
>>> > > Regards
>>> > > Carol
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > >
>>> > > --
>>> > > Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin)
>>> > > Cultural Historical Activity Theory
>>> > > Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>> > > alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za
>>> > >
>>> >
>>>
>>
>>
>