[Xmca-l] Re: Reaping what you sew

[Robert Lake]

 Yes Mike and Andy,
I continually remind my undergrad education majors to
analyze and critique policies, programs, media, etc.
by simply saying "follow the money".
Robert L.

On Tue, Jun 6, 2017 at 1:14 PM, Glassman, Michael <glassman.13@osu.edu>
wrote:

> Andy,
>
> I doubt the tech billionaires care one way or the other about teachers.
> It is more based on the belief that they can create a designed systems for
> education where if you follow it, it will work to the benefit of all within
> it.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Andy Blunden
> Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 12:41 PM
> To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Reaping what you sew
>
> Isn't it the case that what these tech billionaires offer to governments
> and education bureaucrats is the prospect of taking the teachers out of
> education, which is the Holy Grail of education administration? The other
> side of which is that sociocultural theories of learning are weapons to
> save teachers' jobs. Never mind actually emancipate students!
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> Andy Blunden
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>
> On 7/06/2017 2:16 AM, Glassman, Michael wrote:
> > Mike and interested others,
> >
> > What is interesting is that the idea of using algorithms and
> gamification processes to learn is hitting some really big and hard walls.
> It will be interesting to see if the Silicon Valley types respond to them
> or if their approach is mostly just thoughtless, ideological belief in the
> virtues of a certain and limited perspective on technologies and their
> applications in education (which of course also includes a little bit for
> the business models of the progenitors).  A lot of this is coming from
> machine learning, where computer scientists are finding out that learning
> is - you know - really complex.  For instance the two most powerful machine
> learning experiments Alphago and Libratus to not just rely and search and
> retrieve methods (which have dominated so much of cognitive science) but
> realize they have to use positive reinforcement incorporated into their
> rule systems (is it okay if I don't use the word algorithms?).  It is basic
> operant learning taken from your favorite t
> >   attered copy of Walden Two.  It is the only way to really move
> forward.  My guess is that soon they are going to find that learning is
> more complicated than that.  I was really amused by the story of the mother
> using Mathbox because her son was doing the math exercises to improve his
> avatar and not to actually learn math.
> >
> > There are also the deep flaws in the basic associationist learning
> methods used in the big data models, related to the ones discussed in the
> article about figuring out and responding what students need at the
> moment.  One of the things people (hopefully) are finding out is that when
> you have big data that includes all the flaws and biases that exist in that
> data.  You might be able to code your way out of this but the coders would
> have to know a hell of a lot about socio-cultural theories.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see if anybody owns up to, let alone addresses
> these limitations.
> >
> > Michael
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@
> mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> > Sent: Tuesday, June 06, 2017 11:37 AM
> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Reaping what you sew
> >
> > XMCA-o-philes-
> >
> > Below is a story about the infusion of high technology pedagogical
> regimes into American schools. What struck me was both the extent to which
> the underlying pedagogy in some of these effort (rhetoric about
> student-driven educational
> > regimes) and the technological structure (individualization through use
> of learning algorithms) resonate with views one might find on xmca and/or
> are derived from research on the use of learning theory ideas that can be
> traced by the mathematical learning theory ideas popular when i was a
> graduate student.
> >
> > Anyway, a sign of the times. For your amusement if you are so inclined.
> >
> > mike
> >
> > PS- Putting this url in my browser worked for me but its pretty long.
> Good luck.
> >
> >
> > https://www.nytimes.com/2017/06/06/technology/tech-
> billionaires-education-zuckerberg-facebook-hastings.
> html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-
> heading&module=second-column-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>


-- 
Robert Lake  Ed.D.
Associate Professor
Social Foundations of Education
Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
Georgia Southern University
P. O. Box 8144, Statesboro, GA  30460
Amazon Author Page:
https://www.amazon.com/Robert-Lake/e/B00E6BTUDM/ref=dp_byline_cont_book_1
Webpage: https://georgiasouthern.academia.edu/RobertLake*Democracy must be
born anew in every generation, and education is its midwife.* John
Dewey-*Democracy
and Education*,1916, p. 139