[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel on Action
James Ma
jamesma320@gmail.com
Sun Jul 16 00:35:24 PDT 2017
Hello Greg, thank you so much for the references - they'd be very useful to
two manuscripts I've been writing for MCA (planned to finish off after
ISCAR conference).
Best wishes, James
*_____________________________________*
*James Ma* *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
<https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>*
On 15 July 2017 at 19:50, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> James,
> I agree that vygotsky, Saussure, and Pierce are playing in the same general
> activity (semiotics/semiology), but I think they are playing very different
> games. The strongest contrast seems to be between pierce and Saussure, and
> with radical and important consequences. Benjamin Lee's book Talking Heads
> is fantastic at sussing out this difference, and Webb Keane has also done
> some excellent writing on the issue. Keane's work is particularly relevant
> in his semiotics of materiality.
> Perhaps of interest?
> -greg
>
>
> On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 8:26 AM, James Ma <jamesma320@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > Andy, apologies for my digression from your point. The sign resides both
> > within and outside the mind - this is my understanding from reading
> Peirce.
> > Somehow the effect of your article (I'm still reading it) on me is that
> it
> > makes me think more and more into Peirce...
> >
> > My understanding of "the material" is both interpretative and observable.
> >
> > Although I read Peirce and Vygotsky, the Saussurean/Hallidayan imagery is
> > always present in my mind (due to a linguistics background). Anyway, I
> feel
> > these thinkers sit together quite comfortably - all their ideas are
> > complementary - and can be distilled into one word: semiotics.
> >
> > James
> >
> > *_____________________________________*
> >
> > *James Ma* *https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa
> > <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa>*
> >
> >
> >
> > On 15 July 2017 at 13:28, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >
> > > James, I think you're using "material" in some specific sense which is
> > > unknown to me. It seems to me to be something to do with body language
> as
> > > opposed to speech, maybe practical consciousness rather than discursive
> > > consciousness. "Material" understood as meaning "made of matter" would
> > > simply be the opposite of "in my imagination". I find it difficult to
> get
> > > my head around the idea of a "sign in the mind" and if "mind" was some
> > > place other than the material world where a sign could be located. I'm
> > sure
> > > what you are talking about is perfectly good, but I can't relate it to
> > the
> > > absolutely basic ontological issue which you raised out of my paper
> about
> > > action.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > Andy Blunden
> > > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > > On 15/07/2017 8:15 PM, James Ma wrote:
> > >
> > >> Thanks for such helpful explanation, Andy.
> > >> Regarding my last question, I mean one's feeling or sense perception
> > >> involved in social practice in a social context possesses the material
> > >> quality of a psychic image (a sign in the mind). This material quality
> > can
> > >> be one's facial expression or bodily movement connected with a
> > particular
> > >> feeling.
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> /_____________________________________/
> > >>
> > >> */James Ma/*///https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 15 July 2017 at 09:42, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
> > >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> James, the meaning for words such as "material" and to
> > >> a lesser extent the other words in your message have
> > >> meanings which are extremely context (or discourse)
> > >> dependent. The Stanford Encyclopaedia of Philosophy
> > >> doesn't have a definition of Matter, considering it
> > >> only in relation to Form, but their definition of
> > >> Substance will do the trick. I follow Lenin and
> > >> Vygotsky in my understanding of matter. (Hegel didn't
> > >> like to use the word, because he took it as too linked
> > >> to Atomism. Marx used "material" in a very specific
> > >> way to do with reproduction of the means of life.)
> > >>
> > >> As to the philosophical meaning of "matter" I think I
> > >> said it in the paper as succinctly as possible. If
> > >> it's in the mind then it is not material. I can't make
> > >> sense of your last question.
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Andy Blunden
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > decision-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >>
> > >> On 15/07/2017 6:28 PM, James Ma wrote:
> > >>
> > >> This is interesting to me, Andy. Do you rule out
> > >> anything that has material quality but is actually
> > >> associated with a mental sign (a sign in the mind,
> > >> as Peirce would say)? Do you consider social
> > >> practice (you mentioned earlier) to be tinted with
> > >> the intrapsychological within oneself?
> > >>
> > >> James
> > >>
> > >> /_____________________________________/
> > >>
> > >> */James
> > >> Ma/*///https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/
> > >> <https://oxford.academia.edu/JamesMa/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 15 July 2017 at 07:11, Andy Blunden
> > >> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> No, it would be spreading confusion, Greg.
> > >>
> > >> "Matter" in this context is everything outside
> > >> of my
> > >> consciousness. "Activity" in this context is
> > >> human,
> > >> social practice. Moving attention to the
> > >> sub-atomic
> > >> level, a field where we have no common sense,
> > >> sensuous
> > >> knowledge, does not help.
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > >> -----------------------------
> > >> -------------------------------
> > >> Andy Blunden
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
> > >> on-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/product
> > >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>>
> > >>
> > >> On 15/07/2017 2:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Andy,
> > >> Just musing here but I'm wondering if
> > >> "matter" is
> > >> anything more than activity, particularly when
> > >> considered at the sub-atomic level.
> > >> At that level, matter seems a lot more
> > >> like the
> > >> holding of relations in some activity (not so
> > >> different from the Notion?).
> > >> Or would that be taking things too far?
> > >> -greg
> > >>
> > >> On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Andy Blunden
> > >> <ablunden@mira.net
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Anyone who got interested in that
> > >> material about
> > >> "Hegel on Action", here is my
> > >> contribution.
> > >>
> > >> https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/
> > 33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/3388
> > >> 7830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/
> > 33887830/Hegel_on_Action
> > >> <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>>
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> --
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> Andy Blunden
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
> > >> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
> > >> on-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/product
> > >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>>
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products
> > >> /book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/product
> > >> s/book/origins-collective-decision-making
> > >> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> > >> decision-making>>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -- Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > >> Assistant Professor
> > >> Department of Anthropology
> > >> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > >> Brigham Young University
> > >> Provo, UT 84602
> > >> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
> > >> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >> <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
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