[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel on Action
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Sat Jul 15 22:23:12 PDT 2017
I am stunned, Larry. You have represented my position
perfectly.
Thank you.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://home.mira.net/~andy
http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
On 16/07/2017 3:19 PM, Lplarry wrote:
>
> Greg, Andy,
>
> As I am listening to your discourse from the margins I
> hear Andy saying (take activity) as the mono basic
> fundamental approach.
>
> I will respond to how I understand this discourse:
>
> Consciousness, matter, gravity, are concepts and as
> concepts are derivative from more basic activity which is
> primary.
>
> Activity as the basic (substance) , concepts as derivative.
>
> As substance, activity is NOT COMPOSED of other things.
>
> Andy gives the example of the concept (chair) that is not
> a material object but is an activity. The (entire
> activity) is REPRESENTED in the concept of the chair.
>
> Whatever artifact is considered, it is not the material
> object that is represented by the conceptual artifact, but
> the (entire activity) is represented in the conceptual
> artifact.
>
> Mediating artifacts used by philosophers in their social
> practice are words.
>
> Just as we are inclined to IDENTIFY the concepts of
> ordinary artifacts with the material object ITSELF (rather
> than the entire activity mediated by the artifact) we
> likewise are inclined to talk about the concept mediated
> by the word (such as the word ‘being’) AS IF the word were
> ITSELF the concept (therefore loosing awareness of the
> entire activity IDENTIFIED in the concept (being) as used
> by philosophers.
>
> So, in Hegel’s time the concept (Spirit) expressed this
> entire activity, but today the entire activity is better
> understood as (activity). Both the concept Spirit in
> Hegel’s time and the concept Activity today, indicate the
> same phenomena (the entirety of activity).
>
> Activity (the entirety of activity) is the one SUBSTANCE
> that cannot be decomposed into other things.
>
> Matter, consciousness, gravity, can be understood as
> activity (the one substance) so these words represent
> concepts and concepts are NOT the words, concepts are the
> activity (the entirety of activity) and activity is more
> basic than consciousness or material.
>
> Andy, not sure if I am taking (activity) as you intended,
> but is my response to listening to the discourse between
> you and Greg as I listen from the margins.
>
> A tentative probe
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
> *From: *Andy Blunden <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> *Sent: *July 15, 2017 6:03 PM
> *To: *eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: Hegel on Action
>
> Communication is hard, isn't it? You have interpreted what I
>
> have said in the exact 100% opposite of my meaning, Greg.
>
> The European Rationalists and Empiricists of the
>
> Enlightenment broke with the monism of the Catholic Church
>
> and proposed that matter existed outside of and
>
> independently of human consciousness but the nature of
>
> matter could be known by the respective programs of
>
> rationalism and empiricism. This is the view which guided
>
> the development of philosophy and science in the West and
>
> remains common sense to this day.
>
> *Hegel proposed a viable alternative to this ontology*
>
> But he did not do that by providing "new" definitions of
>
> matter and consciousness. He proposed a new monist starting
>
> point and reconstructed an entire world view beginning from
>
> that single concept which, in the spirit of his own times,
>
> he called "Spirit". I call it "Activity" and the article
>
> shows that this interpretation is true to Hegel's intention.
>
> So please, rather than imagining how matter and
>
> consciousness could somehow get mixed up with one another
>
> and we can discover psychokinesis and tell the future with
>
> dreams, be open to taking Activity as the substance of a
>
> world view.
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Andy Blunden
>
> http://home.mira.net/~andy
>
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>
>
> On 16/07/2017 4:45 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>
> > Andy,
>
> >
>
> > I must confess to being entirely confused by your
>
> > suggestion that "matter is everything outside of
>
> > consciousness". It sounds like you are starting the
>
> > conversation by saying "there is matter on the one hand
>
> > and there is consciousness on the other hand and never the
>
> > twain shall meet." Perhaps that is an essential starting
>
> > point for understanding activity, but I would at least
>
> > like to imagine it could be otherwise.
>
> >
>
> > In my work I am trying to
>
> > do this work of imagining
>
> > how it could be otherwise. I'm trying to think of this
>
> > another way
>
> > , t
>
> > o get a grip on things in some way that does not split the
>
> > world in two
>
> > right at the get-go
>
> > .
>
> >
>
> > I assume that for you this is an ontological commitment.
>
> > You start by assuming (asserting? realizing?) that there
>
> > are two types of things in the world - matter and
>
> > consciousness. I'd rather not start there. Because this
>
> > involves a disagreement in our starting assumptions, I
>
> > don't suspect we'll get very far with that conversation
>
> > (and we've dabbled in that conversation before and indeed
>
> > we haven't gotten anywhere).
>
> >
>
> > So I thought I would ask a slightly different question:
>
> > what is the nature of gravity? Is it more like matter or
>
> > more like consciousness (in that one could imagine gravity
>
> > being something "outside" of matter in the sense that you
>
> > are saying "consciousness" is outside of matter)? I know
>
> > you are committed to non-dualism in some sense and I'm
>
> > just trying to figure out how you reconcile all of this.
>
> >
>
> > In solidarity,
>
> > -greg
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Sat, Jul 15, 2017 at 12:11 AM, Andy Blunden
>
> > <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > No, it would be spreading confusion, Greg.
>
> >
>
> > "Matter" in this context is everything outside of my
>
> > consciousness. "Activity" in this context is human,
>
> > social practice. Moving attention to the sub-atomic
>
> > level, a field where we have no common sense, sensuous
>
> > knowledge, does not help.
>
> >
>
> > Andy
>
> >
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Andy Blunden
>
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>
> >
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>
> >
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> >
>
> > On 15/07/2017 2:31 PM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Andy,
>
> > Just musing here but I'm wondering if "matter" is
>
> > anything more than activity, particularly when
>
> > considered at the sub-atomic level.
>
> > At that level, matter seems a lot more like the
>
> > holding of relations in some activity (not so
>
> > different from the Notion?).
>
> > Or would that be taking things too far?
>
> > -greg
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Jul 14, 2017 at 10:12 PM, Andy Blunden
>
> > <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
>
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
>
> > <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > Anyone who got interested in that material about
>
> > "Hegel on Action", here is my contribution.
>
> >
>
> > https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
>
> > <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>
>
> >
>
> > <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action
>
> > <https://www.academia.edu/33887830/Hegel_on_Action>>
>
> >
>
> > Andy
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> > Andy Blunden
>
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy
>
> > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>
> > <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>
> >
> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>
> >
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>
>
> >
>
> >
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>
> >
> <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making>>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>
> > Assistant Professor
>
> > Department of Anthropology
>
> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>
> > Brigham Young University
>
> > Provo, UT 84602
>
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
> > <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > --
>
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>
> > Assistant Professor
>
> > Department of Anthropology
>
> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>
> > Brigham Young University
>
> > Provo, UT 84602
>
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>
> > <http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson>
>
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