[Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man

Sat Jan 14 15:06:43 PST 2017

Yes, definitely that article! And specifically, when I used "pivoting" I
couldn't help but think of Beth's earlier example about how a child will
use a stick as a pivot for a horse. Perhaps a somewhat different
application but related, no?

On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 4:06 PM, Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
wrote:

> Chris, all,
>
> your post is totally relevant to Beth's and Monica's article in the
> special issue. They write about film and perezhivanie (quoting Sobchack)
> the following:
>
> The reason that film allows us to glimpse the future is that there is a
> connection between filmic time and ‘real’ time: “The images of a film exist
> in the world as a temporal flow, within finitude and situation. Indeed, the
> fascination of the film is that it does not transcend our lived-experience
> of temporality, but rather that it seems to partake of it, to share it”
> (1992, p. 60).
>
> And later
>
> "Specifically, the way that the flow of time becomes multidirectional is
> that “rehearsals make it necessary to think of the future in such a way as
> to create a past” (1985, p. 39). As Schechner ex-plains: “In a very real
> way the future – the project coming into existence through the process of
> rehearsal – determines the past: what will be kept from earlier rehearsals
> or from the “source ma-terials” (1985, p. 39)."
>
> Alfredo
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> on behalf of Christopher Schuck <schuckcschuck@gmail.com>
> Sent: 14 January 2017 21:43
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fate of a Man
>
> But that's both the limitation and strength of art or fictional narrative
> as opposed to real life, isn't it? That art focuses our attention and
> highlights certain features in a way that is idealized and artificially
> "designed" to convey something more clearly and purely (but less
> organically and authentically) than it would be conveyed in the course of
> living it, or observing someone else living it? One way to get around this
> would be, as David says, to analyze the film in terms of clues as to the
> stages of emergence. But maybe another way to use the film would be to view
> it not so much as a complete, self-sufficient "example" of perezhivanie, as
> a *tool *for pivoting back and forth between the concept of perezhivanie as
> imaginatively constructed (through fiction), and the concept of
> perezhivanie as imaginatively constructed (through our real living
> experience and observation of it). So, it would be the *pivoting* between
> these two manifestations of the concept (designed vs. evolved, as David put
> it) that reveals new insights about perezhivanie, rather than understanding
> the concept from the film per se.
>
> On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 3:08 PM, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > I think there's a good reason why Andy started a new thread on this:
> he's a
> > very tidy thinker (quite unlike yours truly) and he knows that one reason
> > why xmca threads are seldom cumulative is that they digress to related
> > problems without solving the immmediate ones.
> >
> > Yes, of course, a film allows us to consider an example of
> "perezhivanie",
> > but it is a designed perezhivanie rather than an evolved one; it doesn't
> > explicitly display the various stages of emergence required for a genetic
> > analysis, unless we analyze it not as a complete and finished work of art
> > but instead for clues as to the stages of its creation (the way that, for
> > example, "Quietly Flows the Don" was analyzed to determine its
> > authenticity).
> >
> > I remember that In the original short story, the schnapps drinking
> > scene seemed like pure sleight of hand: an artistically gratuitous
> example
> > of what eventually gave Soviet social realism such a bad name.
> >
> > David Kellogg
> > Macquarie University
> >
> > On Sat, Jan 14, 2017 at 10:04 PM, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com
> >
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Fellow XMCa-ers
> > >
> > > I have watched it through now, thank you Andy, but right now only
> > empirical
> > > psychological categories come to mind.  I will watch it again and in
> the
> > > meanwhile let my fellows with more recent experience of /perezhivanie/
> > take
> > > the discussion further.
> > >
> > > It is a kind of timeless story, and modern film techniques would
> perhaps
> > be
> > > more explicit. At the least I would say it has for me a Russian
> > > understanding of suffering, perhaps because of their unique experience
> of
> > > it. But having said that, WWII must have generated other similar
> > > experiences, apart from the first part about Andrei's family dying in
> the
> > > famine.
> > >
> > > Carol
> > >
> > > On 14 January 2017 at 02:15, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > >
> > > > I watched it in two parts with subtitles:
> > > >
> > > > http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16w7fg_destiny-of-a-man-
> > > > 1959-pt-1_creation
> > > > http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x16wat4_destiny-of-a-man-
> > > > 1959-pt-2_creation
> > > >
> > > > Andy
> > > >
> > > > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > > > Andy Blunden
> > > > http://home.mira.net/~andy
> > > > http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-
> decision-making
> > > > On 14/01/2017 2:35 AM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
> > > >
> > > >> > >Thank you for taking us to a shared example.  I think that
> having a
> > > >>
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Carol A Macdonald Ph.D (Edin)
> > > Cultural Historical Activity Theory
> > > Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> > > alternative email address: tmacdoca@unisa.ac.za
> > >
> >
>