[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie

Fri Jan 6 20:34:13 PST 2017

No apology needed, I just did not want to take credit for Bella's paper!
Beth

On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 11:15 PM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:

> My sincere apology Beth.
>
> Will try to slow down.  This topic multiplies quickly ; - )
>
>
>
> Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
>
>
> *From: *Beth Ferholt <bferholt@gmail.com>
> *Sent: *January 6, 2017 7:21 PM
> *To: *eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> *Cc: *Alfredo Jornet Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>
> *Subject: *[Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
>
>
> I have not caught up yet but think I am being confused with Bella -- My
>
> paper in the issue did relate to redemption but I am Beth ; ) . Beth
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 8:26 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Here is the Garrison article. A search of the lchc site turned up a
>
> > discussion of his work in 2007. And earlier, with an interruption for
>
> > Garrison Keiler. :-)
>
> > mike
>
> >
>
> > On Fri, Jan 6, 2017 at 4:57 PM, <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >
>
> > > Alfredo,
>
> > > I have started reading through the article you have attached that you
>
> > and
>
> > > Wolf-Michael Roth wrote together. I noticed an article referenced  by
> J.
>
> > > Garrison [An Introduction to Dewey’s Theory of Functional
> ‘trans-action’:
>
> > > An alternative paradigm for Activity Theory] in Mind Culture and
> Activity
>
> > > 2001.  Is this article archived as open access?
>
> > > I believe Garrison may also contribute to my growing understanding of
>
> > > [experience and learning].  You reference this at a point in your paper
>
> > > [page 108] where you are discussing experience is in EXCESS of
> cognitive
>
> > > construction. [a tremendous excess of experience over intellectual
>
> > subject
>
> > > matter]. This is a path worth travrlling along.
>
> > >
>
> > > Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>
> > >
>
> > > From: Alfredo Jornet Gilthat experience is always in
>
> > > Sent: January 6, 2017 9:43 AM
>
> > > To: lpscholar2@gmail.com; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > > Subject: Re: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> > >
>
> > > Larry, great additions, but why writing "trans/hivanie" when we have a
>
> > > number of resources to be aware of the etymological roots of
>
> > perezhivanie?
>
> > > One such resource is in Andy Blunden's article in the special issue.
>
> > > Another is an earlier paper Michael and myself co-authored a few years
>
> > ago
>
> > > and which you can find attached. I quote from the paper:
>
> > >
>
> > > "Experience (perezhivanie) in its original sense—in English and Russian
>
> > as
>
> > > well as in the French exp´er ience or the German equivalent Erfahr
>
> > > ung—suggests that in contrast to the repetition of something,
> experience
>
> > is
>
> > > related to travel, traversal, peril, risk, and change. The
>
> > > Proto-Indo-European root per(e) -denotes the verbs to try, dare, and
>
> > risk,
>
> > > put oneself in danger; as such, it also made it into suchwords as exper
>
> > > iment (Greek pe´ırama,  experiment) and perilous."
>
> > >
>
> > > Alfredo
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > From: lpscholar2@gmail.com <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>
> > > Sent: 06 January 2017 18:27
>
> > > To: Alfredo Jornet Gil; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > > Subject: RE: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> > >
>
> > > Rob, and Christopher, and Alfreda, and Marc,
>
> > > This is an interesting reference to Nozick and achieving an experience
>
> > > without struggle. I want to refocus us on how this insight is an
>
> > extension
>
> > > to Christopher’s posting. In particular the opening paragraph. The
> image
>
> > of
>
> > > smashing to bits the bricks is wrapped up in the end moment of
>
> > > trans/hivanie.
>
> > > SO the focus on what occurs before this end point central to
>
> > Christopher’s
>
> > > question :
>
> > > ‘but is this how trans/hivanie works?’
>
> > > AND Christopher answers by focusing on the :
>
> > > ‘extended back and forth, the REPEATED back and forth, the
>
> > > (living-through) that seems to be exemplary of trans/hivanie.
>
> > >
>
> > > Marc says it is ‘this’ phenomena that brought him to trans/hivanie and
>
> > not
>
> > > the other way around.
>
> > > What is occurring within the ‘repetition’ being lived through.
>
> > > As an aside Nozick turned to eastern philosophy from the  Indian
>
> > > subcontinent for deeper inspiration. I could add more if interest
>
> > warrants
>
> > > (possibly another thread).
>
> > >
>
> > > ALSO, i recommend going to page 27 of Bella’s article (that Peter
> posted)
>
> > > to get a sense of Vygotsky’s extended repeated (living through) of the
>
> > > Jewish question that he was writing extensively about in 1916. On that
>
> > page
>
> > > Bella refers to two articles Vygotsky wrote on this theme. One was in a
>
> > > (literary) mode while the other was written in a (psychological) mode.
>
> > > Trans/hivanie at work implicitly as formative of the later Vygotsky.
>
> > > This topic, as Bella images as spaghetti tangles. In Vygotsky’s own
> words
>
> > > from 1916 on the incomprehensible riddle-like companion of Jewish
>
> > > history as :
>
> > >
>
> > > ‘riddle-like, inexplicability, the MYSTERY of Isreal ....   eternal
>
> > fellow
>
> > > traveler of the eternal people, the SECRET of the eternity of the
> Jewish
>
> > > people’
>
> > >
>
> > > To further this strand we should possibly keep distinct from this
> month’s
>
> > > article. However the theme of ‘repetition’ that had the mood of
> profound
>
> > > struggle or at a deeper level a mood of no movement and closed off, is
>
> > the
>
> > > process occuring which maybat some point in time erupt as smashing 2016
>
> > to
>
> > > bits and bricks scattering as an act of ‘deconstruction’ that i believe
>
> > can
>
> > > loose the reality of what came before, starting with Bella’s zero stage
>
> > > that is  (existential). A time when the person traversing the zero
> stage
>
> > > should be ‘recognized’ through moral/ethical care and concern. Not a
>
> > > journey of (mineness) through Heidegger which is a protesting
> protestant
>
> > > approach, but through mitsein as living-through.
>
> > > I hope my referencing multiple speakers but trying to stay within
> strands
>
> > > is clear?
>
> > > Perezhivanie as trans/hivanie as Marc says is approached through
> multiple
>
> > > pluaristic traditions that are psychological, literary, and
> philosophical
>
> > > and extend through historical consciousness as the living-through
>
> > > repetitive back and forth traversal that INCLUDES as central the PAUSE
> or
>
> > > MA or INTERVAL or GAP.
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > > Sent from my Windows 10 phone
>
> > >
>
> > > From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
>
> > > Sent: January 6, 2017 7:17 AM
>
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> > >
>
> > > Rob, how appropriate the thought experiment!
>
> > > Alfredo
>
> > >
>
> > > ________________________________________
>
> > > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> >
>
> > > on behalf of R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
>
> > > Sent: 06 January 2017 15:41
>
> > > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>
> > > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> > >
>
> > > In thinking about "experience as struggle", I found myself considering
>
> > > Nozick's thought experiment of the experience machine, which he uses to
>
> > > explore the issue of ethical hedonism.* Consider a machine which could
>
> > > stimulate a person's brain to induce pleasurable experiences that the
>
> > > subject could not distinguish from those he would have apart from the
>
> > > machine. Nozick then asks, if given the choice, would we prefer the
>
> > > machine to real life? (this description from Wikipedia). It strikes me
>
> > > that the experience delivered by the machine is experience without
>
> > > struggle. There is no activity from the subject, meaning making is not
>
> > > necessary, and therefore there is no development.
>
> > >
>
> > > Clara quotes Vygotsky "A perezhivanie is a unit where, on the one hand,
>
> > > in an indivisible state, the environment is represented, i.e. that
> which
>
> > > is being experienced—a perezhivanie is always related to something
> which
>
> > > is found outside the person—and on the other hand, what is represented
>
> > > is how I, myself, am experiencing this," - the thought experiment
> breaks
>
> > > the unit, and in doing so, I think, demonstrates how important its
>
> > > existence as a unit is.
>
> > >
>
> > > *Also brilliantly explored in the "Total Immersion Video game" in Red
>
> > > Dwarf Season 5 episode 6 Back To Reality.
>
> > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2IzX6b1YJHI
>
> > >
>
> > > Rob
>
> > >
>
> > > On 03/01/2017 17:37, Christopher Schuck wrote:
>
> > > > It's an interesting question (about the brick and perezhivanie),
> partly
>
> > > > because that extended, "living-through", repeated doubling-back
> process
>
> > > > evoked by the Vygotskian sense of the concept would seem to be at
> odds
>
> > > with
>
> > > > a single, discrete act of "smashing" that is immediate, forceful and
>
> > even
>
> > > > violent. It would suggest that part of what perezhivanie means is
>
> > wrapped
>
> > > > up in the symbolic marking of its end - and that this end, when it
>
> > comes,
>
> > > > can be forceful. Certainly, the image could not be more unified and
>
> > > > embodying of a particular set of meaningful experiences. But is that
>
> > how
>
> > > > perezhivanie works? This leads me to ask:
>
> > > >
>
> > > > 1) what are the problems and contradictions encountered in using
>
> > > particular
>
> > > > metaphors to depict perezhivanie, where perezhivanie is itself so
>
> > defined
>
> > > > by imagination and narrativity? Part of this might also be a question
>
> > of
>
> > > > what it means to describe and represent one's own perezhivanie
>
> > > > figuratively/narratively (whether to others, or to oneself), as
> opposed
>
> > > to
>
> > > > living that perezhivanie. Especially if the attempt to
>
> > capture/represent
>
> > > > one's own perezhivanie is, perhaps, also central to the living of it?
>
> > > >
>
> > > >   2) What is the nature of the relationship between perezhivanie and
>
> > > force,
>
> > > > either in terms of the internal process or in terms of how it finally
>
> > > > "ends"?  (Not to mention, how it begins). It would seem that in both
>
> > > > conceptions discussed in the article there is a certain intensity
>
> > > required.
>
> > > > But does this in some cases require something more explosive - and
> does
>
> > > > Vasilyuk's conception of perezhivanie as activity speak more to this
>
> > > > possibility? And how do we reconcile this with the less "forceful"
>
> > notion
>
> > > > of enduring, revisiting, and working through?
>
> > > >
>
> > > > On Monday, January 2, 2017, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
>
> > > >
>
> > > >> The pieces of brick thrown up by this political hammering have not
> yet
>
> > > >> fallen and made the devastation personally experienced by the
>
> > > nation/world.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> Still, genuinely, we can wish all of us 7.3 billion well in the new
>
> > > year.
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> So what do you think chuck, is this a good representation of
>
> > > perezhivanie?
>
> > > >> :-)
>
> > > >> Mike
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >> On Mon, Jan 2, 2017 at 11:24 AM Charles Bazerman <
>
> > > >> bazerman@education.ucsb.edu> wrote:
>
> > > >>
>
> > > >>> So you think 2017 has any hope of being any better?
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>> Chuck
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>> ----- Original Message -----
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>> From: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>> Date: Monday, January 2, 2017 11:01 am
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>> Subject: [Xmca-l]  New Year's Perezhivanie
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>> With the New Year, as our Russian colleagues put it!
>
> > > >>>> This image forwarded from a friend more or less sums up my
>
> > experience
>
> > > >>>> of
>
> > > >>>> the past year. Thought you might find it interesting too.
>
> > > >>>> Vis a vis the discussion of perezhivanie: Does this image provide
> us
>
> > > >> with
>
> > > >>>> used (re-presented) behavioral evidence of a person undergoing
>
> > > >>> perezhivanie?
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>> Looking forward to the discussion.
>
> > > >>>> Feliz año nuevo!
>
> > > >>>> Mike
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > > >>>
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> > >
>
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Beth Ferholt
>
> Assistant Professor
>
> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
>
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
>
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
>
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
>
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
>
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
>
> Fax: (718) 951-4816
>
>
>

-- 
Beth Ferholt
Assistant Professor
Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
Brooklyn College, City University of New York
2900 Bedford Avenue
Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889

Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
Phone: (718) 951-5205
Fax: (718) 951-4816