[Xmca-l] Re: identity expressed or formed by action?

[Stephen Walsh]

ANDY: That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express
identity" in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social
bonds, but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps
the source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an
imposed identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created
by a desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity.

Yes?

STEPHEN: I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on a little
tighter   :)
Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the minimal group
experiments to favour our ingroup the same impulse that drives us to give
and accept social support?  I think it may be.

On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:57 AM, Stephen Walsh <stephenwals@gmail.com>
wrote:

> I may have to get a coffee and put my thinking cap on a little tighter   :)
> Is the impulse (or drive) that was evidenced in the minimal group
> experiments to favour our ingroup the same impulse that drives us to give
> and accept social support?  I think it may be.
>
> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 10:49 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
>> That sounds good, Stephen, but I don't see any "drive to express
>> identity" in there. I do think there is a drive to form and preserve social
>> bonds, but this is not the *expression* of affiliative identity; perhaps
>> the source of "affiliative identity," and the objective basis for an
>> imposed identity (as opposed to a self-identity), but not something created
>> by a desire or drive to express a pre-existing identity.
>>
>> Yes?
>>
>> Andy
>>
>> ------------------------------------------------------------
>> Andy Blunden
>> http://home.mira.net/~andy
>> http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decision-making
>> On 15/02/2017 9:36 PM, Stephen Walsh wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Andy,
>>> I think that the answer is both.  I think we need to think of identities
>>> as heterogeneous rather than homogeneous. Looking at identity
>>> (dis)continuity following brain injury is instructive. Research we have
>>> conducted with brain injury survivors taking part in post acute community
>>> neurorehabilitiation shows that identities deriving from the groups we
>>> belong to (affiliative identities; e.g. familiy) generate social support
>>> which facilitates the formation of 'self as doer' identities (e.g. painter,
>>> walker etc etc).
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Stephen
>>>
>>> On Wed, Feb 15, 2017 at 7:30 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>>     I would be interested in any helpful comments (other
>>>     than suggestions for more books to read) from my xmca
>>>     psychologist friends on this problem.
>>>
>>>     In discussion with a friend, who is very au fait with
>>>     contemporary social philosophy, but knows nothing of
>>>     CHAT, suggested to me a number of ideas intended to be
>>>     explanatory (rather than descriptive) of current
>>>     social and political trends. He talks about the rise
>>>     of "expressive authenticity" since the 1970s and
>>>     "collective action as a means to express selfhood." In
>>>     response, I questioned whether there is any such thing
>>>     as a drive to *express* one's identity, and that
>>>     rather, collective action (and there is fundamentally
>>>     no other kind of action) in pursuit of needs of all
>>>     kinds (spiritual, social and material) is *formative*
>>>     of identity.
>>>
>>>     A classic case for analysis is the well-known
>>>     observation that nowadays people purchase (clothes,
>>>     cars, food, ...) as a means of expressing their
>>>     identity. I question this, because it presumes that
>>>     there is the innate drive to express one's identity,
>>>     which I see no evidence for. I think people adopt
>>>     dress styles in much the same way that people carry
>>>     flags - to promote a movement they think positive and
>>>     to gain social acceptance in it. Identity-formation is
>>>     a *result* not a cause of this.
>>>
>>>     So, am I wrong? Is identity formation a result or a
>>>     cause of activity?
>>>
>>>     Andy
>>>
>>>
>>>     --     ------------------------------------------------------------
>>>     Andy Blunden
>>>     http://home.mira.net/~andy <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy>
>>>     http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decisi
>>> on-making
>>>     <http://www.brill.com/products/book/origins-collective-decis
>>> ion-making>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>