[Xmca-l] Re: Perezhivanie of perezhivanie

Mon Dec 18 17:00:38 PST 2017

Hi all,
there might be some light on the question of perezhivanie of perezhivanie
from the German Ideology. Marx/Engels write:

Where there exists a relation, it exists for me, the animal does not
"relate" to anything and not at all. For the animal its relation to others
does not relate as relation.
(((Wo ein Verhältnis existiert,
da existiert es für mich, das Tier „verhält" sich zu Nichts und überhaupt
nicht.
Für das Tier existiert sein Verhältnis zu andern nicht als Verhältnis"
p.30))))

As I said before, in phenomenological (post-Husserlian) phenomenology,
there is Being, but consciousness can be only with beings (things) that
allow past being to be made present again. This making present is central
to consciousness in the formulations of Husserl and Mead (from whom we can
learn a lot). The organism-relation exists in the animal world, but not for
the animal and not as relation.

Marx, in *Capital* shows how the ideal emerges. It is a human-human
relation that reflects itself in human-thing relations, and the human-thing
relation reflects itself in human-human relations (that's why we have
perezhivanie of perezhivanie). Some thing participating in the relation
then has synecdochical function in that it comes to stand for the relation
as a whole and especially for anything ideal (use-value for commodities,
meanings for words, etc)

Or so it makes sense to me

Michael

Wolff-Michael Roth, Lansdowne Professor

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Applied Cognitive Science
MacLaurin Building A567
University of Victoria
Victoria, BC, V8P 5C2
http://web.uvic.ca/~mroth <http://education2.uvic.ca/faculty/mroth/>

New book: *The Mathematics of Mathematics
<https://www.sensepublishers.com/catalogs/bookseries/new-directions-in-mathematics-and-science-education/the-mathematics-of-mathematics/>*

On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 4:13 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> A question for Michael and David concerning consciousness as perezhivanie
> of
> perezhivanie ---
>
> I think that in one of the prior discussions of perezhivanie on xmca I gave
> the following example of my early encounter with the term, and want to
> introduce it again to get some clarity about the current discussion of
> Michael's article.
>
> Back when Russian rockets were heading to Cuba I used to commute from
> (Lenin, nee Sparrow Hills) to the main campus of MGU, I would take a bus in
> cold
> weather to avoid a long walk from the Metro. The bus was so crowded that at
> its second stop outside the downtown MGU campus, you would be lucky to be
> able to cram into the bus and it only got worse until nearing the campus.
>
> I seem to remember that if asked about the bus ride, I would either say
> that it was a kashmar (the French got to Moscow at an earlier date) or that
> I "perezhil" (past tense) the 111 bus. And as I said it, I would re-live,
> so to speak, my having lived through that intense, often unpleasant,
> experience. I think it would be grammatical and sensible to describe my
> recounting and re-membering that "experience" as perezhivanie of
> perzhivanie.
>
> Perhaps this is an inappropriate example. I was not using the term as part
> of a set of theoretical terms (Vasilyuk had not written his book on
> perezhivanie and I do not recall being present for a discussion, either of
> why Leontiev was right and Vygotsky wrong (or vice versa) about
> perezhivanie. And I hope I was paying attention and conscious of what I was
> doing both times I used the term.
>
> Perhaps in the early Vygotsky where the perezhivanie of perezhivanie
> comment appears he was using the term, perezhivanie in an everyday sense of
> the term, but later it was used as a scientific term?
>
> David -- where does LSV write that consciousness begins at birth? Seems
> important to know.
>
> Thanks for the interesting discussion.
>
> mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> For those like myself who never got past intro chemistry or physics, but
> are interested in qualitative research,
> this site might be of interest. I notice there is a blog on the topic as
> well as a relevant resource page. Perfect prep for reading Martin's book!
> :-)
>
> mike
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