[Xmca-l] Re: XMCA-ers: Help needed finding LSV references to *First* and *Second* Signal Systems

[Peter Feigenbaum [Staff]]

Mike,

Thanks for the Luria references.  From a cursory reading of the relevant
passages in the Luria & Yudovich book, and judging by some of the other
sources you listed, I get the impression that there hasn't been much
theoretical *fleshing out* of the structures of the second signal system.
I hope that the concept of a first and second signal system is not just a
political argument, but instead has some real substance. I find it hard to
imagine that our *animal* (stimulus-response) system of thinking is
developmentally unrelated to our *human* (conversational
initiation-response) system of thinking.

If anyone else knows of any passages from Vygotsky related to this topic,
please don't hold back!

Much obliged.

In solidarity,
Peter


On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 1:56 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:

> Peter-- If you google Luria "second signal system" you will come up with
> several references. There is a copy at luria.ucsd.edu of his little book
> with Yudovich on twins that uses that language.
>
> It is not online (so far as i know), but Luria's article on "Speech
> development and the formation of mental processes" in Cole and
> Maltzman, *Handbook
> of Soviet Psychology. *Basic Books, 1969 uses this term a lot.
>
> I believe you will find an upsurge of usage associated with the late
> 1940's-50's when Vygotskians were under severe attack, there were special
> "Pavlov sessions" where they had to recant their errors, and the use of
> first and second signal system by Pavlov
> allowed them a life line to orthodoxy.
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, Oct 28, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Peter Feigenbaum [Staff] <
> pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu> wrote:
>
> > Dear colleagues,
> >
> > I don't wish to detract in any way from the very serious and absolutely
> > necessary discussion about male sensitivity (or should I say
> insensitivity)
> > to the voices of the women inhabiting this list, but I sure could use
> your
> > collective help with a small matter of scholarship. I am trying to locate
> > any passages in LSV's Collected Works in English in which he refers to
> the
> > *first* and *second* signal systems.
> >
> > My understanding is that Vygotsky considers the first signal system as
> the
> > biologically inherited stimulus-response (S-R) system of reflexes as
> > described by Pavlov, whereas the second signal system refers to the
> > culturally inherited system of initiation-response that is particular to
> > human conversational activity. I am working with the hypothesis that, in
> > ontogenetic development, the first signal system becomes *domesticated*
> by,
> > and ultimately subordinated to, the second signal system. That is, the
> S-R
> > form of thinking becomes developmentally transformed into the
> > Initiation-Response form of thinking that is characteristic of a person
> > performing a listening-speaking turn in conversation.
> >
> > If any of the wonderful scholars on this list could help point this poor,
> > stumbling colleague
> > in the right direction, I would be most grateful.
> >
> > Warm wishes to all,
> > Peter
> >
> > p.s. -- Let me take this opportunity to express my heartfelt thanks to
> Mike
> > for creating this list in the first place, and with it the opportunity
> for
> > Vygotskian scholars the world over to share and discuss our ideas in an
> > open and honest forum. For my part, I pledge to do my level best to raise
> > my own consciousness where it is deficient so that my participation in
> this
> > forum will be as inclusive and respectful to all of its participants as
> is
> > humanly possible.
> >
> > --
> > Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
> > Director,
> > Office of Institutional Research
> > <http://www.fordham.edu/academics/office_of_the_
> > provos/office_of_institutio/index.asp>
> > Fordham University
> > Thebaud Hall-202
> > Bronx, NY 10458
> >
> > Phone: (718) 817-2243
> > Fax: (718) 817-3817
> > email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu
> >
>



-- 
Peter Feigenbaum, Ph.D.
Director,
Office of Institutional Research
<http://www.fordham.edu/academics/office_of_the_provos/office_of_institutio/index.asp>
Fordham University
Thebaud Hall-202
Bronx, NY 10458

Phone: (718) 817-2243
Fax: (718) 817-3817
email: pfeigenbaum@fordham.edu