[Xmca-l] Re: Collective moments and perezhivanie - the Bowie phenomenon

[Andy Blunden]

er - "quite" not "which appropriate." :)
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 14/01/2016 2:17 PM, Andy Blunden wrote:
> Very interesting questions, Sue.
> * browse around research on the impact of the death of 
> Princess Dianna Spencer. In my experience it had an even 
> greater emotional impact globally.
> * Check out the work of Alain Badiou on the Event - not 
> stuff I like, but there is a lot of discussion around it.
> * I think the idea of such moments and the period of their 
> "overcoming" being instances of collective perezhivanie is 
> which appropriate. I don't know of anyone looking at just 
> this angle though.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> On 14/01/2016 11:44 AM, Susan Davis wrote:
>> Hi all,
>>
>> I am very interested in the recent discussion about 
>> moments and perhaps
>> how that might connect to current experiences in relation 
>> to the news
>> about David Bowie¹s death and possible experiences of 
>> individual and
>> collective perezhivanie.
>>
>> The death of David Bowie has prompted a collective 
>> outpouring of grief,
>> and very public and personal recollections and sharing of
>> meaningful moments.  Across social media platforms, in 
>> the news and
>> conversations people recall the influence of his life and 
>> work, and on
>> things that made a difference in their own lives.   
>> People are shedding
>> very real tears, sorry for a life cut short too soon but 
>> also perhaps
>> thinking about the person they themselves were, are, 
>> could have been or
>> could become. I notice in particular people reflecting on 
>> the importance
>> of Bowie¹s life and work for their own sexuality, 
>> creativity and courage
>> to explore difference. There is a sense that people are 
>> experiencing
>> Œperezhivanie¹, having a very real and very personal 
>> experience right now,
>> but they are also revisiting significant moments from 
>> their past, sharing
>> with others collectively, pausing to reflect, to 
>> construct and reconstruct
>> meaning and in some cases this may translate to new 
>> action and experience
>> in lives going forward.
>>
>> I am intrigued by what is going on with these Œmoments' 
>> and times of
>> collective grieving and remembering, of how now 
>> opportunities for enormous
>> collective global grief occur, and make a mark on 
>> individual lives, on
>> networks and social worlds, and beyond. While there is a 
>> sense that these
>> experiences may be fleeting and soon be replaced in 
>> people¹s lives by the
>> latest crisis, disaster, gadget or internet sensation, 
>> there is also a
>> sense that something significant has happened, we have 
>> been connected to
>> something of momentary significance that is global, 
>> communal but also
>> deeply personal. This seems like a form of Œperezhivanie¹ 
>> to meŠ does
>> anyone have any other thoughts and reflections on this? 
>> On experiences of
>> communal perezhivanie and how this is being further 
>> enabled through social
>> media?
>>
>> Is this something anyone is currently researching or is 
>> this a potential
>> new area for investigation?
>>
>>
>> Kind regards
>>
>> Sue
>>
>> Dr Susan Davis
>> Senior Lecturer | School of Education & the Arts/Higher 
>> Education Division
>> CQUniversity Noosa, PO Box 1128, Noosaville Qld 4566
>> P +61 (0)7 5440 7007 | M +61 (0)418 763 428 | E 
>> s.davis@cqu.edu.au
>>
>> CQU Website: www.cqu.edu.au
>>   <http://www.cqu.edu.au/>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 12/01/2016 5:35 pm, "Huw Lloyd" 
>> <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Thank you David and Haydi. That's insightful.
>>>
>>> Would it be correct to summarise this idea as: a moment 
>>> is the
>>> manifestation of the whole (transformation) in the 
>>> instant, which is a
>>> progression in its transformation?
>>>
>>> Presumably molar goes back to molecule?  I can't see how 
>>> it relates to to
>>> teeth/molars at present...
>>>
>>> Best,
>>> Huw
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 12 January 2016 at 06:37, David Kellogg 
>>> <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Thanks, Haydi--I have always wondered what the word 
>>>> "molar" means (in
>>>> the
>>>> wk of Leontiev) and what the relationship to chemistry 
>>>> and dentistry is.
>>>> Your explanation cleared this up, as well as clearing 
>>>> up the relation
>>>> between "moment" and music.
>>>>
>>>> I'm not so sure that Andy's contribution--the idea that 
>>>> what is meant
>>>> is a
>>>> moment in calculus--is so irrelevant. You see, for me 
>>>> there are three
>>>> problems that we have to work out in annotating 
>>>> Vygotsky's use of
>>>> "moment"
>>>> (and actually I think that the task of annotating 
>>>> Vygotsky's work is the
>>>> real next step in Vygotsky studies, not mindless 
>>>> "mythbusting").
>>>>
>>>> First of all, "moment" is used in Kant, in Hegel, and 
>>>> in phenomenology
>>>> in a
>>>> way I would characterize as SYNOPTIC--that is, to 
>>>> describe something
>>>> like a
>>>> sculpture which does not move, which we may 
>>>> circumambulate and describe
>>>> from various sides. But in Vygotsky the "object" being 
>>>> described is
>>>> almost
>>>> always no object at all, but rather an unfolding 
>>>> process. Where the
>>>> synoptic object does not move and can be 
>>>> circumambulated, the dynamic
>>>> object moves, and we are usually stuck in one position, 
>>>> observing it.
>>>> This
>>>> means that the "moments" are only aspects of the whole 
>>>> in retrospect:
>>>> as we
>>>> observe they tend to appear as neoformations which were 
>>>> not even
>>>> present,
>>>> much less typical, of the phenomenon previously. We 
>>>> could somehow treat
>>>> these moments as always inhering, the way that puberty 
>>>> is implicit in a
>>>> newborn infant) but treating real psychic phenomena 
>>>> like speech or
>>>> musicality that way seems absurdly teleological and 
>>>> seems to deny the
>>>> irreducible unpredictability of development. I think 
>>>> that the idea of
>>>> "moment" as being a moment of an integral gets us 
>>>> around this (because
>>>> even
>>>> nonlinear functions can be integrated). Certainly if I 
>>>> were explaining
>>>> "moment" to a high school teacher of science, I would 
>>>> use the example of
>>>> angular momentum.
>>>>
>>>> Secondly, Vygotsky (and also Hegel) sometimes uses 
>>>> "moment" and
>>>> sometimes
>>>> uses "instance". Are these different? It seems to me 
>>>> that they are. The
>>>> cline of instantiation, in Hallidayan linguistics, is 
>>>> quite different
>>>> from
>>>> the description of development. A text is an instance 
>>>> of a language, but
>>>> it's not a 'moment'. A context of situation is an 
>>>> instance of a context
>>>> of
>>>> culture, but it's not a moment of it. We cannot say 
>>>> that "weather" is a
>>>> "moment" in the development of a climate: it's an 
>>>> instance. Viewed
>>>> synoptically, weather and climate are simply to 
>>>> different chronological
>>>> sections of one and the same phenomenon (akin to using 
>>>> "phylogenesis",
>>>> "ontogenesis", "microgenesis"). But that brings me to a 
>>>> third problem,
>>>> where it seems to me that Haydi's musical analogy is 
>>>> indispensible.
>>>>
>>>> I think that it is only when we treat the phenomenon to 
>>>> be described
>>>> synoptically, and not when we treat it dynamically, 
>>>> that we can
>>>> seriously
>>>> say that, for example, weather and climate are 
>>>> descriptions of the same
>>>> phenomenon which differ in granularity. In fact, 
>>>> weather is chiefly
>>>> influenced by wind; the angle of the sun (or the 
>>>> relationship between
>>>> solar
>>>> radiation absorbed and solar radiation reflected out 
>>>> into space) is
>>>> present, but it is much less immediately causal. With 
>>>> climate, it's the
>>>> other way around. When we say that word meaning 
>>>> develops, we see much
>>>> the
>>>> same qualitative shifts: sense is a constitutive moment 
>>>> of infant speech
>>>> while signiication is quite peripheral, whereas with 
>>>> dialogue on xmca we
>>>> have the reverse relationship. This shift in the 
>>>> organic make up of the
>>>> phenomenon also occurs with other dynamic phenomena, 
>>>> and an obvious way
>>>> to
>>>> grasp this is Haydi's example of music: recitative in 
>>>> opera, for
>>>> example,
>>>> is dominated by melody (derived from speech), but arias 
>>>> are much more
>>>> regular and rhythmical (and for this reason stand 
>>>> somewhat closer to
>>>> emotion and to logical thought, even when looked at as 
>>>> text).
>>>>
>>>> David Kellogg
>>>> Macquarie University
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Jan 11, 2016 at 6:04 PM, 
>>>> <haydizulfei@rocketmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dear all ,
>>>>>
>>>>> Look at this please !
>>>>>
>>>>> [[V. S. Bibler has singled out the following basic 
>>>>> features of a
>>>> thought
>>>>> experiment: 1) The
>>>>> object of cognition is mentally transferred to 
>>>>> conditions where its
>>>>> essence can be revealed
>>>>> particularly clearly; 2) this object then undergoes 
>>>>> further mental
>>>>> transformations; 3) this same
>>>>> experiment leads to the formation of a system of 
>>>>> mental links in which
>>>> the
>>>>> object is
>>>>> ³embedded.² If the construction of this object can 
>>>>> still be
>>>> represented
>>>> as
>>>>> a process of
>>>>> abstraction of the real object¹s properties, then this 
>>>>> third moment
>>>>> essentially becomes a
>>>>> productive contribution to the mentally represented 
>>>>> object. It is only
>>>>> within this special
>>>>> system of links that the object¹s content gets 
>>>>> revealed.]]
>>>>>
>>>>> This is the same with "activity" as "molar" , that is 
>>>>> , activity ,
>>>> action
>>>>> , operation are not parts or stages of a whole , 
>>>>> discrete and separate
>>>> even
>>>>> componential . As I can think of it , it is a point in 
>>>>> a circular
>>>>> succession of a whole which could naturally be 
>>>>> manifest in temporal
>>>>> instants . By definition , in a round of activity , 
>>>>> neither itself ,
>>>> nor
>>>>> action , nor operation could keep to their constancy 
>>>>> or stability or
>>>>> independence or invariability. At each point of 
>>>>> succession or
>>>> motionality ,
>>>>> because of opposites , alterations in drives , motives
>>>>> , emotional incentives or stimuation , each of the 
>>>>> three could be
>>>> converted
>>>>> in the other as we all have seen .
>>>>>
>>>>> And there's an affinity in music domain . A whole 
>>>>> melody is played
>>>> with
>>>>> all nuances , pitch , other contours in their entire 
>>>>> composition .
>>>> It's a
>>>>> whole to be absorbed in its entirety so that the 
>>>>> invited pleasurable
>>>>> feeling is obtained . Usually some individual wouldn't 
>>>>> refer to a
>>>>> particular part or stage orietating on which this or 
>>>>> that kind of
>>>> affect
>>>> or
>>>>> ecstacy runs through the soul . The individual might 
>>>>> even stop to
>>>> think
>>>> of
>>>>> how to express it and he might finally resort to 
>>>>> imitation . Then ,
>>>> the
>>>>> philosopher , might refer to that particular point or 
>>>>> that single
>>>> note in
>>>>> whole composition or in playing as moment or as a 
>>>>> temporal instant on
>>>> which
>>>>> such and such a manifestation , event , episode , 
>>>>> feature , state
>>>> occurs
>>>> .
>>>>> Taking that single note apart from the whole might be 
>>>>> uncognizable or
>>>>> immanipulative in itself and the whole without it or 
>>>>> with a substitute
>>>>> might lose the favor . Another example might be the 
>>>>> "ideal" which is
>>>> said
>>>>> to be immersed in material activity . Davydov's works 
>>>>> are good sources
>>>> for
>>>>> such qurries but I can't give a locus now .
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Best
>>>>>
>>>>> Haydi
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>
>>
>
>