[Xmca-l] Re: Blackface and Gayface

[R.J.S.Parsons]

Thanks for that. I can see the historical power of the explanation. I am 
a bit surprised that some of these were not introduced by other people 
as well - perhaps there is a more complex process by which they come to 
be associated exclusively with black slave identity.

And how did slaves get to itroduce them? They cant have brought them 
with them all the way form Africa. And they would not be conducting 
their own commerce. Interesting.

Rob

On 25/04/2016 16:35, Greg Mcverry wrote:
> Rob,
>
> Collard Greens were first introduced in the US by African Slaves. It is a
> regional dish (though not appealing to Vegans) served in both Southern
> cuisine and Soul Food.
>
> Collard Greens though have taken on a strong metaphorical  role in southern
> Black identity.
>
>
> On Mon, Apr 25, 2016 at 11:12 AM R.J.S.Parsons <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> It is wonderful what you learn on xmca. I had never heard of collard
>> greens before. A quick visit to Wikipedia has enlightened me: things I
>> eat most days. But the category has no meaning in my life, or in that of
>> any other UK resident I am aware of. We eat some, we don't eat others.
>>
>> Can someone enlighten me as to how and in what way collard greens has
>> become a marker of identity in the USA?
>>
>> Rob
>>
>> On 25/04/2016 15:37, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote:
>>> Jacob
>>> Now we have to get into the definition of what is black identity?  I am
>> native haitian who grew up in the provinces where my grandparents practiced
>> vodou and raised me to think as an african.  My world was constituted via
>> the universe and vodou.  I simply do not believe in defining myself by my
>> skin-color.  By white man, yes I do privilege white experiences of the
>> earth and the ideologies and apparatuses they have constituted as a result
>> of the experience; blackness in the west was defined in relation to that
>> experience. So in order for me to be black in america and join the black
>> community what should I do:
>>> Join a so-called black church (they discriminate against my vodou
>> religion as in vodou we discriminate against them for they practice the
>> white man's faith)Eat collard greens, chicken, and macaroni and cheeseSpeak
>> AAEVwear skinny jeansListen to rap music and rb
>>> OR is Barack Obama a paragon for e. Franklin frazier's the black
>> bourgeoisie?
>>> I am haitian and My wife is black american and we have two sons... I do
>> not let my sons do the black church thing.  My wife attends her protestant
>> church every sunday.  But my sons are not allowed to attend;  No AAEV in
>> the house; we are vegans so we do not do many of the foods...
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy Note® 4, an AT&T 4G LTE smartphone
>>>
>>> -------- Original message --------
>>> From: Jacob McWilliams <jennamcjenna@gmail.com>
>>> Date: 4/25/2016  9:46 AM  (GMT-05:00)
>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Blackface and Gayface
>>>
>>> I do not, and never will, agree with the arguments that reject Obama's
>>> black identity. I find those arguments deeply problematic at minimum, and
>>> usually much worse than problematic. However, I do wish that those who
>>> argue that Obama is not black would not describe him as a white man. By
>> the
>>> terms of this argument, whiteness is no more a "real" category than is
>>> blackness, and referring to Obama as a "white man," even if done to shock
>>> people, serves to feed into the very real, and not at all fictitious,
>>> hegemony of whiteness in America and around the world.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>