[Xmca-l] Re: Interesting to think about: the social springs of giving
Jay Lemke
lemke.jay@gmail.com
Fri Oct 23 13:32:48 PDT 2015
Larry,
In my view, our actions are guided more by implicit or unconscious habitus,
that is embodied dispositions, then by explicit rules or principles. I
believe this is particularly true in the case of ordinary moral choices as
opposed to unusual or difficult ones.
It seems to me that it is an intellectual isolation more characteristic of
people like us to believe that our actions are mostly guided by reasoning
with principles. I believe that most of the time people act in terms of the
first choice that naturally comes to mind (or body) or in terms of simple
folk sayings that accompany and justify more than guide or motivate
ordinary actions. This is not to say that we don't attempt to reason with
principles in more complex unusual or difficult situations.
In general, the dispositions of this kind and the ordinary life sayings or
narratives are shared in a community. Historically, they may have first
arisen as more explicit principles, but I am not sure whether this is
generally true. Dispositions tend to arise from prior dispositions.
Sometimes they represent sedimentations of earlier explicit and perhaps
new (at the time) principles.
Intellectual analysis tends to over emphasize explicit reasoning about
choices and actions. In my view such reasoning is far more the exception
than the rule. Even in the case of widely circulating shared discourses or
narratives in a community it may often be the case that these are
themselves the products of felt dispositions rather than the sources of
shared community values. What the actual sources of shared community values
may be seems to me to largely remain a mystery, in so far as values indeed
are shared — as I believe they are not nearly so much shared as ideologies
would have us believe especially since the rise of modern nation states. I
believe that we do not so much share values as we accommodate our different
values to one another in the process of practical living in a community.
The very idea of "values" seems to me to reify and make overly explicit
what are experientially more rooted in feelings and less conscious
dispositions.
JAY.
Jay Lemke
LCHC/Department of Communication
University of California - San Diego
www.jaylemke.com
On Fri, Oct 23, 2015 at 12:07 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> Jay,
> The notion of community solidarity and habits.
> The question I have is how central are our shared "values" for expressing
> community solidarity.
> Andy has mentioned rules (and laws, standards, etc) as shared actions and
> assumptions that become more codified and more determined over time.
> Is it reasonable to say that it is our values as they are expressed within
> community solidarity that over time become more determined as rules and
> other formulated orientations?
> My question comes from my reading Richard Bernstein who is exploring our
> shared *values* as guiding our actions within community participation.
> Larry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net>
> Sent: 2015-10-22 5:00 PM
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Interesting to think about: the social springs of
> giving
>
> Yes of course, Jay. I don't know a term (rather than a whole
> sentence) to distinguish motivations which develop out of
> participation in a congregation along with entire
> communities from "I do this so I get into Heaven" (or
> something). But it is exactly as you say.
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> On 23/10/2015 3:26 AM, Jay Lemke wrote:
> > A follow-up thought about the question of religious motivation for
> > altruistic participation in that Arkansas community. In small towns like
> > that in that part of the US, it's fairly normal to have regular
> > participation in church activities. Churches frequently organize
> > philanthropic and community support activities such as visits to sick
> > church members, help for families in need, and so on.
> >
> > I believe this develops a habitus or normal disposition for participating
> > in such community activities. Although it would be common for people to
> > justify their participation using religious language, I don't think we
> need
> > to assume a direct religious motivation for participation such as with
> Make
> > a Wish. It seems enough that people have developed the habit of
> > participating in similar activities through lifelong churchgoing. Even
> the
> > habit of putting a dollar in the collection plate on Sunday provides a
> > template for putting a dollar in the Make a Wish collection box.
> >
> > I offered this observation because although it is important to assess the
> > role of religious belief in altruistic behavior, I think we need to
> > distinguish action based on such belief from habits of community
> solidarity
> > that depend more on participation in the activities of a church
> community,
> > which may not be specifically based in religious belief as such.
> >
> > JAY.
> >
> >
> > Jay Lemke
> > LCHC/Department of Communication
> > University of California - San Diego
> > www.jaylemke.com
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Oct 22, 2015 at 6:18 AM, Daniel Hyman <
> daniel.a.hyman.0@gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Highly illuminating, Andy, thank you!
> >>
> >> A semantic quibble and a brief personal story:
> >>
> >> - "Go back" could mean, as well as "retreat" or "withdraw", "return". A
> >> subtle but key shade of meaning.
> >>
> >> - I have just returned to New York from a remarkable year in Kiev.
> Easily
> >> its most meaningful and rewarding aspect, was being invited to weekly
> >> services as cantor of the main Progressive synagogue in Ukraine,
> >> Atikva Tsentr. (No ordination, no problem.) Judaism is called a
> religion,
> >> but to my mind (and others') ill fits that category. Atikva is a vibrant
> >> cultural and social community. It stands, phoenix-like, within walking
> >> distance of Babiy Yar. I suppose one could call my affinity there
> >> "religious". Theology or faith per se, however, had very little to do
> with
> >> it. Belonging, thriving, making music and friends there, was a case of
> >> being both 5,000 miles from home, and right at home. Social capital
> emerged
> >> from thin air, every Saturday morning.
> >>
> >> On Wed, Oct 21, 2015 at 8:52 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Mike, it is a suggestion that the phenomena manifested by Make-a-Wish
> in
> >>> NE Arkansas may not be portable, and that the kind of social change
> >>> achieved requires other means in other places.
> >>> After kind of touring the world, Horton went back, more or less, to his
> >>> home territory to set up the base to use adult education as an
> instrument
> >>> for social transformation. The merits of beginning from your own roots
> is
> >>> one of the conclusions I drew from my years of ultraleft activity. In
> the
> >>> 1970s, all over the world, people of my generation who had been
> >> radicalised
> >>> in the mass movements of the 1960s abandoned the professions they would
> >>> otherwise have joined after completing university and went to work in
> >>> factories based on convictions that this was where social
> transformation
> >>> could be achieved. A big mistake. Just like in many countries our
> >> opposite
> >>> numbers left the cities and went into the countryside. Big mistake.
> >>> This was not a mistake made by the woman who is the inspiration behind
> >>> this obsession with Make-a-Wish in NE Arkansas. She was a child who got
> >> her
> >>> real wish fulfilled and got better after being the subject of a
> >> Make-a-Wish
> >>> project, and what she decided to do with her life was lots and lots of
> >>> Make-a-Wish projects in her home town and surrounds. Good decision.
> >>> Now, there is a strong sense of "Only in America" in this story. I am
> not
> >>> much of a theologian, having been raised by Communists myself and never
> >>> having been to Damascus. But I think it could only be in a country so
> >>> utterly steeped in Christianity as rural U S of A that Make-a-Wish
> could
> >> so
> >>> grip entire communities.
> >>> In social democratic countries like Australia, Make-a-Wish has a life,
> >> but
> >>> it is not a big thing and nor is any variety of philanthropy. When
> people
> >>> want to do something to help there is a powerful reflex which says that
> >> the
> >>> proper way to help is to get government or at the very least some kind
> of
> >>> statutory authority to take on the problem in a permanent, universal
> >>> commitment. Which does produce weird phenomena from time to time.
> >> Whenever
> >>> there is a tsunami or a famine, Australians give billions on a personal
> >>> basis and our governments give very little.
> >>> Now this brings me to a puzzle which I have wrestled with most of my
> life
> >>> without resolution. Almost everyone I see doing good, selfless
> community
> >>> service, even including self-help and community development work, is
> >>> motivated by religion. There are those of us who serve the community
> >>> motivated by secular ideals, but we are really a small minority. This
> is
> >> a
> >>> real conundrum for those of us motivated by secular ideals because we
> >> rely
> >>> on the idea that secular ideals are powerful enough to motivate
> >> meaningful
> >>> life-projects which are not self-serving.
> >>> One of the attractions of Make-a-Wish is that it is a
> >> project-of-projects.
> >>> In fact, most of the participants probably are not even conscious of an
> >>> overall project, just "Make-a-Wish".
> >>> None of the above goes to the key relation at the centre of each
> >>> Make-a-Wish project, the sick child. I am sure a poet-psychologist
> could
> >>> wax lyrical on that theme, but that's not for me. The ability of the
> sick
> >>> child to cut through to the heart of every adult is surely universal.
> But
> >>> Jane Jacobs rated the obligation upon any adult to come to the aid of
> any
> >>> child on the pavement a key characteristic of a healthy city and I
> agree.
> >>>
> >>> Andy
> >>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>> *Andy Blunden*
> >>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >>> On 22/10/2015 1:33 AM, mike cole wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> larry, Andy
> >>>>
> >>>> Does Horton's advice provide an explanation for the various phenomena
> on
> >>>> display in that video segment?
> >>>>
> >>>> I am a little lost here.
> >>>> mike
> >>>>
> >>>> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:47 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com
> >> <mailto:
> >>>> lpscholar2@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy,
> >>>> The wisdom of Myles Norton.
> >>>> You must go back. Does this mean retreat or withdraw
> >>>> to a simple place? The question of the place being
> >>>> simple also seems relevant.
> >>>> Also the need for a goal. Is the type of goal required
> >>>> an *ethical* goal that is shared?
> >>>> THEN the movement and application will take its *own*
> >>>> form and structure once we have a place.
> >>>> It seems Myles Horton is trusting goals without
> >>>> blueprints that give pre/established answers.
> >>>> TRUSTING the place and the goals to open
> >>>> opportunities of possibility. A simple place
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>> From: "Andy Blunden" <ablunden@mira.net
> >>>> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> >>>> Sent: 2015-10-20 2:18 AM
> >>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> >>>> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> >>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Interesting to think about: the
> >>>> social springs of giving
> >>>>
> >>>> I watched the story.
> >>>> I already knew about Make-a-Wish so it was no
> >>>> surprise, but
> >>>> Mike's point was of course the way MaW became a
> >>>> vehicle for
> >>>> a fantastic wave of building social fabric.
> >>>> XMCAers are all going to be interested in any idea
> >>>> which can
> >>>> lead to building this kind of *trust* in a community.
> >>>> Trust
> >>>> is basically what "social capital" is, but the point
> >>>> is only
> >>>> how does one go about *building* that trust? Robert Putnam
> >>>> says almost any doing-something-together will have this
> >>>> effect, and took choir groups as his typical example.
> >>>> Personally, I think MaW would do better than choir groups,
> >>>> but that's not the point. Putnam's own data in his
> >>>> original
> >>>> study in Italy actually showed that the best predictor of
> >>>> social capital was having a PCI local government,
> >>>> which was
> >>>> inconvenient for Putnam's theory, so he just excluded this
> >>>> from his results.
> >>>> The story this week in Australia has been about Tamworth,
> >>>> famous for an annual Country Music festival, but
> >>>> otherwise a
> >>>> typical remote outback town. It is now building a
> >>>> Pharmaceutical plant. How did this huge change happen? A
> >>>> young boy had bowel cancer and his mother, a good
> >>>> member of
> >>>> the Country Women's Association, discovered that cannabis
> >>>> was the only medication which relieved the pain and nausea
> >>>> the boy was suffering. She took up the cause. While
> >>>> illegally acquiring cannabis she started lobbying
> >>>> government
> >>>> to legalise medical cannabis and she won, though the whole
> >>>> business will take a year or so to implement. And Tamworth
> >>>> will be all set to market it. She has gathered a huge
> >>>> social
> >>>> movement and local support radiating out from Tamworth.
> >>>> My point. Make-a-Wish worked for North East Arkansas,
> >>>> partly
> >>>> because of one child who lived to champion it. Cannabis
> >>>> legalisation and production worked for Tamworth.
> >>>> As Myles Horton said:
> >>>>
> >>>> What you must do is go back, get a simple place,
> >>>> move in and you are there. The situation is there.
> >>>> You start with this and let it grow. You know your
> >>>> goal. It will build its own structure and take its
> >>>> own form.
> >>>>
> >>>> Andy
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> *Andy Blunden*
> >>>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >>>> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> >>>> On 20/10/2015 4:00 AM, mike cole wrote:
> >>>> > What did you make of the CBS segment, Jay? Does it
> >>>> provide useful example
> >>>> > of principle of community's in Turner?
> >>>> > Mike
> >>>> > Mike
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On Monday, October 19, 2015, Jay Lemke
> >>>> <lemke.jay@gmail.com <mailto:lemke.jay@gmail.com>> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> For an interesting approach to "community", I'd
> >>>> recommend Edith Turner's
> >>>> >> "Communitas". Ethnographic deepening of late Victor
> >>>> Turner's concept.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> JAY.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Jay Lemke
> >>>> >> LCHC/Department of Communication
> >>>> >> University of California - San Diego
> >>>> >> www.jaylemke.com <http://www.jaylemke.com>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Sun, Oct 18, 2015 at 8:58 PM, Andy Blunden
> >>>> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> >>>>
> >>>> >> <javascript:;>> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>> Yes, indeed I am interested, Mike.
> >>>> >>> Critiquing the concept of "social capital" and
> >>>> developing an alternative
> >>>> >>> concept of "social solidarity" and searching for a
> >>>> suitable unit of
> >>>> >>> analysis was how I got started down the track I
> >>>> have been on ever since
> >>>> >>> then, about 2003. What is the difference between
> >>>> community as in all
> >>>> >> people
> >>>> >>> living in such and such town, and "real"
> >>>> community? Robert Putnam had
> >>>> >>> assembled evidence that almost any collective
> >>>> activity fosters what he
> >>>> >>> called "social capital." The problem was that he
> >>>> couldn't distinguish
> >>>> >>> between the mafia taking root in a community and a
> >>>> community taking
> >>>> >> control
> >>>> >>> of crime on its streets, etc. His classic
> >>>> "example" activity was the
> >>>> >>> formation of choir groups, proven promoters of
> >>>> collective "wealth".
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> Andy
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> ------------------------------------------------------------
> >>>> >>> *Andy Blunden*
> >>>> >>> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >>>> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> >>>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> On 19/10/2015 2:07 PM, mike cole wrote:
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> I found a segment of the American weekly TV
> >>>> program, 60 minutes, more
> >>>> >> than
> >>>> >>>> usually interesting this evening, and one segment
> >>>> in particular
> >>>> >>>> seemed to have a lot of relevance to many
> >>>> different interests of people
> >>>> >> on
> >>>> >>>> xmca. The topic was the the activities of the
> >>>> "Make a Wish Foundation."
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Of the very many issues that the program
> >>>> discusses, one which I found
> >>>> >>>> particularly interesting was the ability of the
> >>>> organized practice of
> >>>> >>>> communities
> >>>> >>>> raising money to give seriously ill children "a
> >>>> last wish" is one that
> >>>> >> has
> >>>> >>>> particular relevance to questions about the
> >>>> mechanisms of social
> >>>> >>>> solidarity. In small towns in northern Arkansas,
> >>>> a relatively poor and
> >>>> >> out
> >>>> >>>> of the part of the US, people raise amazing
> >>>> amounts of money to provide
> >>>> >>>> special experience for kids who are dying of some
> >>>> disease that has not
> >>>> >>>> known current cure. What particularly caught my
> >>>> attention especially is
> >>>> >>>> the
> >>>> >>>> powerful effect that participation in the money
> >>>> raising and the
> >>>> >> ingenious
> >>>> >>>> social organization of the activities, has on
> >>>> community members across
> >>>> >>>> several generations, from peers to grandparents.
> >>>> In one sense, it seems
> >>>> >>>> that everything is so focuses on the individual
> >>>> kid that it is "just a
> >>>> >>>> manifestation of late capitalist individualism."
> >>>> If effects on the kids
> >>>> >> is
> >>>> >>>> interesting, but it is the reflected effect on
> >>>> the community pretty
> >>>> >>>> generally, and the emergence of strong personal
> >>>> bonds in particular that
> >>>> >>>> caught me most.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Andy might find this interesting as an example of
> >>>> a project.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> mike
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> http://www.cbsnews.com/videos/topics/60-minutes/
> >>>> click on make a
> >>>> >>>> wish
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>>
> >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >
>
>
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