[Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception ofvisualillusions.

[Lplarry]

A fragment from Joe Weiss that may carry this thread along

The idealist insistence from Kant onward that freedom possesses a *higher order essentiality*, bifurcated from the impulsive moment of SENSUOUS pleasure, was not simply a mark of their theoretical shortcoming, it signified their complicity with the concept at the expense of the EROS of mimesis, the happiness of a subject-object intimacy that is prior to and co-extensive with the concept

-----Original Message-----
From: "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com>
Sent: ‎2015-‎10-‎04 4:43 PM
To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception ofvisualillusions.

Larry,
As always, your post informs and inspires, though I doubt my own will be inspirational. I don’t mean it to be, even when how I say something seems to aspire to inspiration. 

Saccadic eye movements have especially been on my radar since I read that they are important to understanding both the cognitive grammar of Langacker and the gap minding of the CHAT. (Though Langacker devotes much less ink to it than the CHAT people.) It’s all about imagination. And CAN be about creativity, when imagination is disciplined and ethical. Or so I see it.

Visual illusions are the key to magic. Misdirection. The idea that the world in our mind is simply a faithful, “factual" replica of the world “out there” is hard to shake. I would say that magic ranks up there with gesture as a generative metaphor for what it is to be and act as a  human. 

I like the juxtaposition of structure and fluency, think it captures the connection between grammar and language use, grammar being usage based. You elaborate on reading fluency, but the idea is general, as you say:
> "I have a hunch that there is something "beyond" our belief and beyond "bridging" that is continually opening gaps and intervals as new vistas within our acts. 
> This something beyond our  structurings has been called the  "inner feeling" of the event (not to be confused with the "inner feeling" of a single person's mind.”

The idea of the “'inner feeling’ of the event” is intriguing. Would that relate in any way to inner speech, the way Vygotsky construes it? As in, how do I know what I am going to write until I’ve written it? 

I also like the juxtaposition of fluency and rhythm. Temporality. Somehow, the temporal domain seems to me to be the most basic of basic domains, even more basic than the spatial domain. Though I can’t prove it. It certainly feels that way to me. Does this go beyond the inner feeling in my individual mind?  

Henry


> On Oct 1, 2015, at 3:17 PM, Lplarry <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Henry,
> The saccadic eye movements indicating the centrality of minding the gap is literally a fact.
> The question which this fact opens is the factor of gaps within other event structures.
> For example when exploring structures being generated  we imagine "bridges" linking and overcoming the gaps between. 
> However minding the gap indicates the profound necessity of the gap ITSELF.
> If we fail to "mind" (or bridge) the gap is the gap still a constitutive aspect IN ITSELF?
> For example, with gesture, there is the rhythmic movement in relation to the other. However, besides the two participants moving in rhythm is the reality of the gap (or intervals) that "open" within the rhythmic gestures also another profoundly relevant factor in the ensuing rhythmic gestures?
> I am "reading" the concept "gap" as a key metaphor.
> Eric Fromm described western notions of God as residing in a person's beliefs (thoughts) of God.
> In contrast Buddhism and Taoism focus not on beliefs but on right "action". They also have sophisticated elaborations of the "gap".
> I have a hunch that there is something "beyond" our belief and beyond "bridging" that is continually opening gaps and intervals as new vistas within our acts. 
> This something beyond our  structurings has been called the  "inner feeling" of the event (not to be confused with the "inner feeling" of a single person's mind. 
> 
> A concrete example is the structure of the concept "reading fluency". Three characteristics have been "identified in this concept (word accuracy - rate of words in a measured time - prosody or tone).
> I am suggesting this third characteristic -prosody/tone - is the "inner feeling" within the event of reading fluency.
> This has to do with rhythm and gaps.
> Are saccadic eye movements and the rhythm of prosody  sharing a family resemblance (not an identity) that comes back to Dewey's notion of having an experience?
> Larry
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "HENRY SHONERD" <hshonerd@gmail.com>
> Sent: ‎2015-‎10-‎01 12:40 PM
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: imagination and controlling the perception of visualillusions.
> 
> Something that has intrigued me, and may be relevant to the thread, has been how I can “freeze” the movement of my overhead fans by voluntarily jerking my eyes back and forth as I gaze at the revolving fan blades. When I keep my eyes fixed, the blades blur. When I jerk my eyes back and forth, the blades seem to stop. Or so I perceive it. In the Pelaprat & Cole article (2011) on mending the gap, Etienne and Mike discuss saccadic eye movements as “central to the perception of the world”.
> Henry
> 
>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:06 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:27, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> So it's filling the gap again!  :)
>>> 
>> 
>> Or minding it, yes.
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Martin
>>> 
>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 1:16 PM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:13, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 1 October 2015 at 19:11, Martin John Packer <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co
>>>> 
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Huw,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Might this be an artifact of the digital encoding of the video?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Could you head to a tube station and try it with a real train?  :)
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> I suspect you'd need strobe lighting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Huw
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> E.g.
>>>> 
>>>> https://vimeo.com/116582567
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Martin
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 1, 2015, at 10:21 AM, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I came across this meme/advert on linkedin, which is an animation of a
>>>>>> tube
>>>>>>> train:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>> https://buffer-pictures.s3.amazonaws.com/c2f41e8d32861d26bdecfc62f0d979e3.f009ceaeaf27dba4eb65f2ca247e9513.php
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Ignoring the glib annotation, it did seem to be a little interesting
>>> to
>>>>>>> discover if there was a reliable way to manipulate the perception of
>>> the
>>>>>>> direction of the train.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Interestingly, this is something that I find I can do by imagining
>>> that
>>>>>> I
>>>>>>> can see an object within the train moving in the direction I wish, so
>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> perceived direction can be switched at will -- i.e. the perception of
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> train can be shuttled back and forth.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I'm not sure whether conditioning of memories of living in London
>>> would
>>>>>>> influence this (it is a London tube train).  Also, the speed at which
>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> train is going suggests its going away, because a train coming into a
>>>>>>> platform would usually, I think, be going slower.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Best,
>>>>>>> Huw
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
> 
>