[Xmca-l] Re: Two paths of mediation, or perhaps three

[Tom Richardson]

To butt in  again - surely 'sauer' also means 'acidic' - pickled cabbage?
Tom
Middlesbrough UK

On 24 November 2015 at 16:31, Huw Lloyd <huw.softdesigns@gmail.com> wrote:

> I wouldn't have thought that a prior meaning blocks the path to the primary
> meaning necessarily.  The norm, it seems, is that we are unaware of the
> etymological roots of words.  And that unless one was practiced at
> questioning the structure of the word forms then a discovery is not really
> blocked as so much as never sought in the first place.  Personally, it
> seems to me that when I enquire into an etymological meaning and find it
> consonant with a a more pervasive (though little understood) understanding,
> I take some temporary satisfaction in one more accounting in the reckoning
> against our stupid society.
>
> As for (sauer)kraut, I think we could say the same for the more
> contemporary neo-liberal.  Both terms point back to the speaker (and
> artificer) of the word's confusions and sour-grapes which are projected
> onto the protagonist  -- such is war and politics.
>
> Huw
>
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> On 24 November 2015 at 06:17, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
>
> > You've got a good head on your shoulders, Mike!
> > andy
> > ------------------------------------------------------------
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> >
> > On 24/11/2015 3:25 PM, mike cole wrote:
> >
> >> Oops, i should have proof read before rushing off. here is a slightly
> >> cleaner text. Same ideas. :-)
> >> mike
> >> -------------
> >>
> >> Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I
> said,
> >> "Lets make that a part of the repertoire and my mind drifted to a search
> >> for other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time. "Shi,"
> I
> >> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi" Sheila
> >> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has good
> >> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like."
> Then I
> >> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
> Russian.
> >> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
> >> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage
> soup,
> >> or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to myself,
> >> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
> >> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage, even
> >> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of course
> say
> >> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
> >> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> My strong hunch is that the answer lies with the fact that I experienced
> >> WWII as a preschooler who became obsessed with the war. All during my
> >> boyood I read countless fictional and historical accounts of the war.
> The,
> >> and in later years that war was depicted over and over again in films
> from
> >> the Guns of Navaronne to Private Ryan's war in a manner that fit with my
> >> childhood image of WW II German soldiers, the SS, the Wermacht --
> >> "krauts."
> >> To me, the image of the word kraut, seems to have retained this
> primitive,
> >> early, persistent, organizing image.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of shi, I
> >> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating the
> >> knowledge that
> >>
> >> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbage.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Odd how mediation works.
> >>
> >> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary for
> the
> >> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
> >> family,including many
> >> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
> >>
> >> On Mon, Nov 23, 2015 at 8:16 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >>
> >> the following observations might be of interest. I wonder if others have
> >>> had similar experiences. The dynamics of language and the paths of
> >>> mediation seem to be clear to me, but maybe that is just an illusory
> >>> artifact of reporting on introspective reports.
> >>>
> >>> what, as Dr. Matusov is fond of asking, do you think?
> >>> mike
> >>> --------------------------------------------
> >>>   Two paths of mediated thought through three languages.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> The topic arose because we were eating an almost great chiappino. I
> said,
> >>> "Lets make that a part of the repetoir and my mind drifted to a search
> >>> for
> >>> other soups I love, but have not experienced in a long time. "Shi," I
> >>> suggested. Shi is a soup made from saurkraut. "I don't like shi" Sheila
> >>> replied. "I was think we should find a Russian restaurant that has good
> >>> shi," I responded. That way, you could have something you do like."
> Then
> >>> I
> >>> thought about the properties of good shi and I code switched into
> >>> Russian.
> >>> "Kisli kapusta, I said, with a heavy emphasis on the word, kisli, to
> >>> emphasize that is *sour * kapusta in contrast with the usual cabbage
> >>> soup, or the kind of cabbage you have in borscht. Then I thought to
> >>> myself,
> >>> kisli-sour ..... oh, the *kraut *part of shi means cabbage!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I remarked to Sheila that it was remarkable that I had somehow never
> >>> connected the word kraut, as in sour kraut, with the word cabbage, even
> >>> though it you asked me what sour kraut was made of, I would of course
> say
> >>> cabbage. Why did I have to discover that kraut means cabbage from
> >>> remembering the delicious smell of schi?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> My strong hunch is that, because I experienced WWII as a preschooler
> who
> >>> became obsessed with the war. All during my boyood I read fictional and
> >>> historical accounts of the war. In later years that war was depicted
> over
> >>> and over again in films from the Guns of Navarone to Private Ryan's war
> >>> in
> >>> a manner that fit with my childhood image of WW II German soldiers, the
> >>> SS,
> >>> the Wermacht -- "krauts." To me, the image of the word kraut, seems to
> >>> have
> >>> retained this primitive, early, persistent, organizing image.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Because the word, kraut, was already occupied, when I thought of shi, I
> >>> was, it seems, thinking kisli/sour kapusta, without incorporating the
> >>> knowledge that
> >>>
> >>> kapusta =kraut--> kraut=cabbabe.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Odd how mediation works.
> >>>
> >>> And odd too, that my name is Cole.  If you look in the dictionary for
> the
> >>> definition of the word, cole, you will find something like this:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> "any plant belonging to the genus Brassica, of the mustard
> >>> family,including many
> >>>
> >>> economically important vegetables, such as *cabbage.*.......
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> ​darn!​
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> >>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >
>