and I think there is a dire need for such a convergence as well. One of the contributing factors to the anti-science currents which can lead to great medical, political and social problems is antipathy to one particular, dominant *style* of science, and I think entanglement between science and the arts promotes a broader feel for different styles of science. Andy ------------------------------------------------------------ *Andy Blunden* http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/ On 7/11/2015 12:15 PM, mike cole wrote: > Larry, I strongly believe that there is a convergence of humanities and > social/behavioral sciences going on as one thread of academic discourse > congenial to CHAT. A real good location for pursuing it is. The Comm dept > at UCSD, if we add the arts as part off the mix. > That's my story at least. :-) > > Mike > > On Friday, November 6, 2015, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote: > >> I thought I would add the last paragraph of Alex Kozulin's review of >> Vasiliyuk's book. >> >> By choosing the literary model of human experiencing, Vasilyuk affirms his >> adherence to the humanistic, rather than scientific approach to human >> psychology. His work can also be seen as a blueprint for the future >> convergence of humanistic psychology with Vygotsky’s cultural-historical >> theory of human development . >> >> This premonition that some new convergence is on the horizon. The coming >> intersection forming a hybrid character. >> Do others agree that we may be moving in the direction of a *literary >> model*? >> The discussion of White's narrative approach [using Bruner's notion of >> scaffolding] may be an example. >> >> Vasilyuk's key understanding as expressed in his concept of consciousness >> that has two essential aspects [and their relations] >> *stratigraphy* as layered registers of depth or height. Each *layer* is a >> life-world. >> *structure* of the smallest molecule as unit of consciousness IS a *mental >> image* A mental image having the structure of the two magnetic poles and >> the dynamic of consciousness moving within this dynamic *image* like the >> flow of plasma. Depth of layers AND mental images interact generating >> consciousness. >> >> Vasilyuk's philosophy of practice as 1st order word that is originating >> within the liminal spaces on the boundaries OF humanistic THEORY and >> cultural historical THEORY of human development. >> >> Consciousness as the originating site of meaning-GENERATION forming within >> co-experiencing *situations*. In other words situated consciousness as >> working experience. >> >> This is a fragment but does express a *tone* >> >> >> >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 7:58 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com >> <javascript:;>> wrote: >> >>> Mike, the declaration that cultural mediation [in particular the symbolic >>> level] is a key element can put aside psychoanalysis and psychotherapy >>> and turn to Vygotsky's own way of including this symbolic level of >>> coexperiencing. Listen for the implicit movement marking the felt sense >> of >>> having *fallen away* from a *source* and then finding one's way back to >> the >>> *source* [and in this return entering *deeper* levels. I am referring to >>> page 62 of Vasiliyuk's article "Prayer Silence, Psychotherapy". >>> >>> Vygotsky is exploring a *deeper* layer for experiencing suffering. Not a >>> hedonistic flight from suffering, not masochistic consolation, not >> routine >>> platitudes [always a silver lining] but a spiritual sublimation of >> sorrow. >>> Elevating and deepening into the layer of experiencing the *source* by >>> transforming this suffering by return to the eternal. >>> Vygotsky images his life as *my star* in the heavens *marked* by sorrow. >>> His personal life and his Jewish life *marked* by sorrow. BUT this star >> is >>> IN THE HEAVENS. So the meaning of suffering [the falling away from the >>> source] is not in fleeing from the suffering but in returning to the >>> *source* [the eternal, the deepest layer of consciousness] . The meaning >> is >>> *found* in the ELEVATION of suffering, elevtion on the wing OF A PRAYER >> TO >>> GOD. The transformation of suffering IN GOD. >>> >>> Vygotsky's metaphor is a personal particular *image* expressing a deeply >>> felt layer of experience. But within the particular unique felt image >> there >>> is a general [not universal] plot [mytheme] that is historically >>> traceable developing symbolic cultural imaginary. >>> >>> The plot can shift what is *source* [God, sublime, the *self*] and this >>> can be historically traced[including the work of experiencing the >> authentic >>> true *self* in psychology]. >>> >>> Suzanne Kirschner has traced these transformations in this myth from >>> religious origins, transformed within the Romantic movement, and shifting >>> into psychological theories today. >>> >>> The point I am offering is that Vygotsky as Vasilyuk his project was >>> touched by this mytheme. Peirce in his speculative musings, also was >> pulled >>> into this mytheme. >>> >>> I am not suggesting this plot is fundamental or foundational but the >>> yearning for this plot to be universal envelops and embodies us into this >>> particular myth and is experienced as a deeply felt *truth*. It is only >> one >>> of the *key elements* but it is a significant one of the keys to the >>> philosophy of practice. >>> The shift to secular themes [such as naturalism] does not change the >>> underlying plot structure but does change the images that *have us*. >>> Vygotsky saw his *star* ELEVATED to the heavens that transforms suffering >>> which is the experience existing within a symbolic truth, >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 5:00 PM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu <javascript:;>> >> wrote: >>>> Hi Larry-- >>>> >>>> Thanks for your continuing explication of your reading of Vasiliuk. >>>> Putting >>>> aside psychoanalysis and psychotherapy for a moment, I am totally behind >>>> the delaration >>>> that *cultural mediation OF experience* which is a KEY ELEMENT", plus >>>> co-experiencing as the necessary condition for that cultural mediation. >>>> >>>> mike >>>> >>>> On Thu, Nov 5, 2015 at 4:17 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com >> <javascript:;>> wrote: >>>>> Vasilyuk is developing the *philosophy of Practice* as a >> psychotechnical >>>>> *system*. >>>>> He says in his historical outline of the different *basic foundations* >>>> on >>>>> which psychology has relied [from suggestibility to *becoming aware* >> to >>>>> *emancipation* to reliance on learning to reliance on experiencing to >>>> the >>>>> current reliance on experiencing [as existential/humanistic] which is >>>>> intersecting with todays reliance on productively producing internal >>>>> psychological transformations oriented to enriching the meaning of >>>> being. >>>>> Vasilyuk says the task exploring the changing reliances of psychology >>>> as a >>>>> practice is not to describe the *factual* history of psychology and >> the >>>>> reliances of psychotherapy but to elicit the logic of history. In >> other >>>>> words to *listen* to the evolving IMPLICIT plot that gives meaning and >>>>> direction to the subsequent acts of the development of psychology. >> (page >>>>> 11) >>>>> >>>>> One of the key elements Vasilyuk identifies is the concept of >> *cultural >>>>> mediation of experiences*. He says: >>>>> Historically cumulative experiencings with standard situations >>>> crystallize >>>>> in various SYMBOLIC FORMS; when a person experiences crises, his >>>>> consciousness might get connected to these symbolic forms, an so the >>>>> process of experiencing, without losing its personality-oriented >>>>> uniqueness, gains ADDITIONAL DEPTH AND PRODUCTIVITY. (page 18). >>>>> >>>>> It is this additional depth and productivity as symbolic that Vasilyuk >>>> is >>>>> generating within his evolving implicit *plot* oriented to >> transforming >>>>> psychology in order to enrich the meaning of being. This is also the >>>> theme >>>>> Vasilyuk is relying on in his other article *Prayer, Silence, and >>>>> Psychotherapy*. This is the living symbol of prayer on the boundary of >>>>> experiencing and silence/stillness. >>>>> >>>>> Here is Vygotsky exploring the *depth* of symbolism in his own words: >>>>> >>>>> Ophelia's tragedy [a personification] is exactly LIKE a lyrical >>>>> accompaniment, that towers over the entire play, which is full of the >>>>> dreadful torment of INEXPRESSIBILITY, of the most profound dark, >>>>> mysterious, and SACRED melodies that in some incomprehensible and >>>>> miraculous way REVEAL AND EMBODY what is most exciting, most allusive, >>>> and >>>>> touchingly important, what is DEEPEST AND DARKEST, but what is most >>>> tragic >>>>> that is OVERCOME and enlightened, and what IS MOST MYSTICAL in the >>>> entire >>>>> play. Thus tragedy turns into PRAYER .... as though with an oblational >>>> and >>>>> expiatory and PRAYERFUL light, it gives religious illumination to the >>>>> tragedy." (page 61 of Vasilyuk's article.) >>>>> >>>>> Vasiliuk then comments: "No matter how much the devotees of Marxist >>>>> materialism try to conceal Vygotsky's religiosity from themselves and >>>> us, >>>>> it is perfectly obvious that THESE words [LP -1st order words] could >>>> only >>>>> have been written by a person with deep personal EXPERIENCE with >>>> prayer." >>>>> (page 61). >>>>> >>>>> To sum up, I am MARKING [for orientation purposes] the concept of >>>>> *cultural mediation OF experience* which is a KEY ELEMENT of >>>> coexperiencing >>>>> psychotherapy AS philosophy of practice. I believe that the same >>>> *symbolic >>>>> gravity* can be expressed through changing images. The plot of >> "falling >>>>> away from* and *returning to* can be expressed in multiple symbols >> such >>>>> as turning away from God, turning away from the natural sublime, >> turning >>>>> away from one's true authentic self, These images are expressing >>>> different >>>>> *reliances* but are sharing the same symbolic plot as the cultural >>>>> mediation of experiencing. The IMPLICIT deepening of coexperience that >>>> is >>>>> now emerging in Russia since the 1980's that Vasilyuk is plotting may >> be >>>>> implicitly enveloped in this same mytheme of falling away from *the >>>> source* >>>>> and then the return to this *source. >>>>> >>>>> The book *The Religious and Romantic Roots of Psychoanalysis* by >> Suzanne >>>>> Kirschner has plotted this particular myth flowing through Western >> ways >>>> of >>>>> experiencing the meaning of being. She is tracing the roots of the >>>>> emergence of Freudian psychoanalysis but it is the more general >>>> philosophy >>>>> of practice as including this KEY ELEMENT of cultural mediation as >>>>> deepening coexperiences that I am highlighting. >>>>> As Vasilyuk says: the task is to LISTEN FOR *the evolving IMPLICIT >>>>> plot that gives meaning and direction to the subsequent acts of the >>>>> *development* of psychology [including the KEY symbolic element that >>>>> *deepens* experience beyond the personal existential. >>>>> >>>>> Larry >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an >>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch >>>> >>> >
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