[Xmca-l] Re: Having an experience
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Fri Jul 17 22:31:37 PDT 2015
Mike will have to explain where that idea comes from. It is
the kind of insight which (to my mind) marks out the
experimental/practical scientist from the theorist/philosopher.
But it seems to me that it is any shared object, even one
extracted from the Anglo culture, which can become (if I
understand it correctly) a "boundary object," in that it is
meaningful in the cultural universe of all participants in a
dialogue. The fact that the movie (or book - we also
discussed a couple of autobiographies) talks about kinds of
experience which all of us may be familiar with is I guess
important too.
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
On 18/07/2015 2:04 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
> oops -- did not mean to use the term as a verb, above --
> in any case the reason we use film to discuss across
> cultures could be because it is a medium of gaps (the
> still pictures appear to move because of the gaps -- I am
> referring to Sobchack) -- Beth
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:55 PM, Beth Ferholt
> <bferholt@gmail.com <mailto:bferholt@gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Yes, that is very helpful, thank you!
> I do not think it is ever without another, and thought
> of this when I read your recent paper.
> You can always perezhivanie with the others in
> yourself, so long as you attach the other to
> something, even to a "past" or "future" self.
> Virginia Woolf is very good at showing this. Paley's
> children in her class appear to be like Buber, having
> life stand still here with a cat or even a tree.
> Beth
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:44 PM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
> I couldn't tell you that, Beth.
> On Mike's suggestion, you will recall, the
> discussion of perezhivanie was progressed,
> avoiding cross-cultural difficulties, by a
> discussion of films!
> There is a movie called "An Education," and there
> is a passage in this movie where the young heroine
> has this experience, following the revelation of
> how she has been deceived and exploited. It is the
> moment of self-transformation, but that
> transformation is extended perhaps over a period
> of 24 hours, in silence, in that kind of state.
> The first movie that was discussed was "Brief
> Encounter" and here that moment of time standing
> still comes at the end of the movie when the
> heroine reflects on an exciting affair and her
> life with her nice boring husband and sees that
> her life is best just as it is and lets go of her
> romanticism. In my own life, I recall several such
> time-standing-still moments of transformation. But
> in none of these cases was there a therapist
> involved. It is an open question for me, if you
> want to give a different name
> ("meta-perezhivanie") to that perezhivanie where
> the person is able to reflect upon their own
> experience without the aid of another.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> On 18/07/2015 1:25 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
>
> Which stage according to Vasilyuk's stages is
> the standing still? Redemption or the smack
> middle of repentance, when you can see both
> directions at once? Beth
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 11:11 PM, Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>> wrote:
>
> According to Mikhail Munipov (whom you
> have met on
> FaceBook, Beth) that process of "life
> standing still"
> is characteristic of the cathartic moment of a
> perezhivanie.
> And David, if I associate catharsis with
> perezhivanie
> I am more referring to its meaning in
> Greek drama, not
> 19th century medicine or Freudian
> psychoanalysis, all
> of these being derivatives of the original
> Greek, I think,
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> On 18/07/2015 1:03 PM, Beth Ferholt wrote:
>
> Yes, this really makes sense! So it
> is the doing
> that is the practical energy. SO Marx
> was writing
> about a method of perezhivanie?
>
> I may be conflating things but I am
> trying to
> piece together several pieces (like
> how in a big
> city you know a whole neighborhood as
> a world unto
> itself, and then you find out it is in
> the same
> area as another neighborhood that you
> know well --
> but you did not know they were
> connected -- ).
>
> Actually that process of piecing
> together across
> the gaps is also related to what we
> are talking
> about. Of course. When you age in a
> city you also
> have the depth of the memories in
> layers at a
> given place, and this stringing
> together across
> time and place is what Virginia Woolf
> calls life:
> moments in which "life stands still
> her" strung
> together like a strand of pearls =
> with gaps
> between them.
>
> Beth
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 10:42 PM, Andy
> Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>> wrote:
>
> Like you, Beth, I have found this
> xmca thread
> particularly exciting!
> There is one thing I'd like to
> add, which is
> implicit
> in Mike's quote from Marx:
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/comm.htm#art
> which is that Dewey holds an
> experience to be both
> suffering and *doing* [Tatigkeit
> in German].
> The doing means that an experience
> (to be an
> experience, and stand out from the
> background of
> experience, have significance and
> form a whole)
> entails wilfully changing the
> world, even if that
> changing is trivial, such as
> changing other
> people's
> attitudes to you or most trivially
> changing
> how you
> henceforth interact with a certain
> kind of
> situation,
> person or whatever. But doing is
> doing, it is
> not just
> going through the motions or
> habit. And that
> is why
> experiences in this sense are so
> important to the
> development of the personality and
> the world,
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
>
> On 18/07/2015 4:40 AM, Beth
> Ferholt wrote:
>
> This chain of ideas is the
> closest I have ever
> felt to what interests me
> most. It covers all the
> interests that
> brought me
> first to play and then
> to the playworlds and then to
> perezhivanie. Before I went to
> LCHC I was a
> preschool teacher and this is
> a profession
> that I
> think can be described as
> being, in its first part,
> responsible for
> reflecting upon the 'having an
> experience' that is happening
> all around
> you every
> day (time is so
> condensed for young children
> so it is
> happening
> all the time) so that you
> can support the self-creation
> beings who
> are able
> to "have an experience''?
>
> Like with Greg's students, as
> a preschool
> teacher
> you find that what is
> most important is to describe
> what is
> happening in
> a way that is true to
> the children's experiences.
> Vivian Paley
> shows us
> how to do this. If you
> don;t do this you find dealing
> with the
> Golem who
> has had the words that
> give it life removed from its
> mouth: you
> just have
> dirt, nothing even
> remotely related to the Golem,
> not even
> weight.
>
> I think it is the
> teacher/artists who can
> find for
> us those properties that
> will characterize the
> experience as a
> whole. What
> Monica named 'preschool
> didactics from within' is a
> process of working
> with these people in
> research. This sounds like 5D.
>
> Andy, Vygotsky is talking
> about the the two
> purposes of art criticism. One
> is entirely in the domain of
> social life,
> he says,
> guiding what art creates
> in its audience in useful
> directions. The
> other
> is to 'conserve the effect
> of art as art'. He says we
> know this is
> needed,
> because art is a unity,
> and without the whole
> criticism is not
> related to
> art -- he calls what we
> have left, without the unity,
> a wound. But
> criticism of art treats art as
> a parliamentary speech --
> often -- he
> says. Vygtosky shows how to avoid
> this in the chapter on Bunin's
> short story.
>
> As a preschool teacher you
> know that art
> is life
> because if you forget this
> then you have unhappy children
> and your job is
> impossible, or worse. As an
> researcher, every time you hit
> something
> hard you
> can revert to the first
> purpose of art/life criticism,
> or anyhow
> to the
> part that does not conserve
> the effect, without any
> consequences on your
> livelihood. If we could have
> a system of science that makes it
> impossible to
> leave the hardest questions
> to the first purpose of
> criticism, then we
> could
> have so many people
> working on these hardest
> questions in a
> meaningful
> way, but I do not know
> how to do this even in my own
> work.
>
> Except one way is to place the
> desires of the
> teachers and children before
> your own. This is sort of a
> method of love or
> empathy. Kiyo suggested The
> Method of Hope by Miyazaki (no
> relation I
> think)
> and this is related, also
> Edith Turner's work where she
> sees the reality
> that the people she is
> studying see.
>
> Maybe it is a method of
> perezhivanie.
>
> Beth
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at 1:58
> PM, Alfredo
> Jornet
> Gil <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>
> wrote:
>
> Mike, could you elaborate
> on that?
>
> Alfredo
> ________________________________________
> From:
> xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
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> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>> on
> behalf of
> mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>>>
> Sent: 17 July 2015 19:40
> To: eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re:
> Having an experience
>
> Alfredo--
>
> a "method of organization"
> seems close
> to a
> synonym for design.
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jul 17, 2015 at
> 9:42 AM, Alfredo
> Jornet Gil
> <a.j.gil@iped.uio.no <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>
>
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>
>
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no
> <mailto:a.j.gil@iped.uio.no>>>>
>
>
> wrote:
>
> I like very much how
> Greg brings in a
> methodological issue
> here with his
> mention about
> ethnography and his
> reading
> of "fidelity"; that
> the latter
>
> is
>
> not about representing
> exactly,
> but about
> describing events in
> terms of
> consequences for the
> participants,
> which
> they display for each
> other in
> their actual practice.
>
> This methodological
> aspect makes
> me think
> that the the notion of
> ANALYSIS
> BY UNITS, which has
> been discussed
> in xmca
> before, is useful
> here. Unit
> analysis reminds us
> that, as units,
> experiences, as
> concrete and real
> phenomena, have some
> form of
> organization
> that extends in time.
> That is
> why, if I understood the
> discussion below
> correctly, Beth is
> warned not
>
> to
>
> think of the unit of
> experience as
> a unit
> "in itself".
>
> Dewey and Bentley 1949
> made the
> differentiation between
> self-action and
> transaction. In self
> action,
> things are
> explained by their own
> powers.
>
> This
>
> is, I believe, what
> Vygotsky would
> have
> referred to as analysis by
> elements. In
> transaction, they say,
> “deal[s] with aspects
> and phases of
> action, without final
> attribution to
> ‘elements’ or other
> presumptively
> detachable ‘entities,’
> ‘essences,’ or
> ‘realities,’ and
> without isolation
>
> of
>
> presumptively detachable
> ‘relations’ from
> such detachable
> ‘elements’”. An
> experience can be
> studied precisely
> because it is not a
> thing in itself:
>
> it
>
> is always a moving,
> gesture, a
> "method of
> organization" as Dewey &
>
> Bentley
>
> write.
>
> I thought this my add
> something to
> your
> fascinating discussion,
> Alfredo
>
>
> ________________________________________
> From:
> xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
> <xmca-l-bounces+a.g.jornet=iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:iped.uio.no@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>> on
> behalf of
> mike cole
> <mcole@ucsd.edu <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu
> <mailto:mcole@ucsd.edu>>>>
>
> Sent: 17 July 2015 18:23
> To: Andy Blunden;
> eXtended Mind,
> Culture,
> Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re:
> Having an
> experience
>
> Marx: It is only in a
> social
> context that
> subjectivism and
> objectivism,
> spiritualism and
> materialism,
> activity and
> passivity, cease to be
> antinomies and thus
> cease to exist
> as such
> antinomies. The
> resolution of
> the theoretical
> contradictions is
> possible
> only through practical
> means,
> only through the
> practical energy
> of man.
> Their resolution is
> not by any
> means, therefore, only
> a problem of
> knowledge, but is a
> real problem of
> life which philosophy
> was unable
> to solve
> precisely because it
> saw there
>
> a
>
> purely theoretical
> problem."
>
> On Thu, Jul 16, 2015
> at 10:45 PM, Andy
> Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>
>
> wrote:
>
> No, no, Beth. As
> Dewey says:
>
> "This unity is
> neither
> emotional,
> practical, nor
> intellectual, for these
> terms name
> distinctions that
> reflection can
> make within
> it. In
> discourse//about//an
> experience, we
> must make
> use of
> these adjectives of
> interpretation. In going
> over an
> experience in
> mind//after/ /its
> occurrence, we
> may find that one
> property
> rather than
> another was
> sufficiently dominant
> so that it
> characterizes the
> experience as a
> whole."
>
> Isn't this beautiful
> scientific prose!
> We make these
> distinction when
>
> we
>
> *reflect* on an
> experience. And
> perhaps we include the
> experience in
>
> our
>
> autobiography, act
> it out on the
> stage, analyse it
> scientifically, all
>
> of
>
> which presupposes
> analysis and
> synthesis. But it
> is important to
>
> recognise
>
> that the unity is
> prior. It is not
> only a unity of
> emotion and
>
> cognition
>
> (for example) but
> also of
> attention
> and will - and any
> other
> categories
>
> you
>
> abstract from an
> experience.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
>
> On 17/07/2015 3:00
> PM, Beth
> Ferholt wrote:
>
> Or reproducing
> the part that
> represents the
> whole? Like a
> fractal? I
> think it is
> the similarity
> across
> scales that
> makes an
> experience
> proleptic, or
> gives that
> 'bliss
> conferred at
> the beginning
> of the road
>
> to
>
> redemption"
> that Vasilyuk
> refers
> to. You have
> an experience on
>
> several
>
> timescales and
> so a sense of
> deja-vu is
> central to
> having an
>
> experience.
>
> This is what I
> am thinking
> about
> after reading
> both the
> paper of
>
> Dewey's
>
> and your
> recent piece on
> perezhivanie, Andy,
> although I am
> picking up
>
> on a
>
> small piece of
> the last
> email in
> this chain -- : If
> something is only
> itself in its
> whole then
> you can't
> study it, is
> what is
> bothering me.
>
> Beth
>
> On Thu, Jul
> 16, 2015 at
> 11:22 PM,
> Andy Blunden
> <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>
>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>
>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>>>> wrote:
>
> Not
> "getting at
> something",
> Michael. Just
> pursuing
> this
> question you raised
> about Dewey's
> saying that the
> aesthetic quality of
> medieval
> buildings
> arises from
> their not
> being "planned"
> like buildings
> are nowadays.
> He goes
> on to say
> "Every work
> of art follows
> the plan
> of, and
> pattern of, a
> complete
> experience." The
> puzzle
> he is
> raising here is the
> completeness of an
> experience which
> gives it its
> aesthetic
> quality, and
> this
> cannot be created by
> assembling
> together parts in
> the way a
> modern
> building is
> planned. An
> experience -
> the kind
> of thing which
> sticks in your
> mind - is an
> original or prior
> unity, not
> a combination,
> and this
> is what
> gives a work
> of art
> that ineffable
> quality,
> something which can
> only be
> transmitted by
> reproducing
> that
> whole of an
> experience.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy
> Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> On
> 17/07/2015 2:32 AM,
> Glassman,
> Michael wrote:
>
> Andy,
>
> I'm
> still not
> sure about
> your
> question. Did I set
> out
> to have that
> experience, that
> morning...no, I
> don't think so
> (it was a
> long time ago,
> but I'm
> pretty sure no).
> Could I
> have just
> treated it as
> an
> indiscriminate
> activity,
> probably, I had done
> so
> before.
>
> But I
> am guessing
> you're
> getting a
> something here
> Andy?
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From:
>
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> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+glassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bglassman.13>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bglassman.13>>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bglassman.13>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bglassman.13>>>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bglassman.13>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bglassman.13>>
>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bglassman.13>
>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bglassman.13
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2525252Bglassman.13>>>>=
>
> osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:osu.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>] On
>
> Behalf Of
> Andy Blunden
> Sent: Thursday,
> July 16,
> 2015 12:21 PM
> To:
> eXtended Mind,
> Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re:
> Having an
> experience
>
> YOu
> said: "...
> But that
> time I had the
> experience
> with the
> paintings..."
>
> I
> mean that was an
> experience.
> Did you set out
> that morning to
> have that
> experience?
> RE, your
> question: "what
> does he mean
> when he says
> you
> can't do things
> indiscriminately and have
> vital experience,
> but you
> also can't
> plan things?"
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> On
> 17/07/2015
> 2:09 AM,
> Glassman,
> Michael wrote:
>
> Well I'm not
> sure I
> understand
> your question
> Andy, but
> perhaps it has
> something to
> do with
> my
> grandfather's favorite
> saying
> (translated from
> Yiddish),
>
> Man plans,
> God laughs.
>
> Michael
>
> -----Original
> Message-----
> From:
> xmca-l-bounces+mglassman=
>
> ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>
> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces+mglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bmglassman>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman>>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bmglassman>>>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bmglassman>>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%252Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bmglassman>
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%25252Bmglassman
> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces%2525252Bmglassman>>>>=
> ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:ehe.ohio-state.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>]
> On Behalf Of
> Andy Blunden
> Sent:
> Thursday, July
> 16, 2015 12:04 PM
> To:
> xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
> <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>>>
> Subject:
> [Xmca-l] Re:
> Having an
> experience
>
> So Michael,
> there was
> just that one
> occasion,
> in all your
> museum-going,
> when you had an
> experience.
> Was that
> planned?
> (I don't mean
> to say
> you haven't
> had a number
> of such
> experiences,
> Michael ...
> just some
> number actually)
>
> Andy
>
> ------------------------------------------------------------
>
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
>
> <http://home.pacific.net.au/%7Eandy/>
>
> On 17/07/2015
> 1:19
> AM, Glassman,
> Michael wrote:
>
> Hi Larry
> and all,
>
> I think
> this is
> one of the
> most complex
> aspects of
> experience,
> what does he mean
> when he
> says you
> can't do things
> indiscriminately
> and have vital
> experience, but
> you also can't
> plan
> things? I have
> discussed
> (argued) about
> this a
> lot with
> my students. I
> have
> especially seen
> him raise this
> point in at
> least two
> of his
> great works,
> Democracy
> and
> Education and
> Experience and
> Nature -
> and again of
> course in Art
> as Experience
> (notice
> he is not
> saying how Art
> enters
> into
> experience
> but how art is
> experience
> - I have
> come to
> notice these
> little
> things
> more and
> more in his
> writing).
>
> The
> difficulty we
> have, at least
> in the
> United States
> because of the
> dominance of
> the idea of
> meta-cognition, is that we too
> often
> translate
> what
> individuals are
> bringing
> in to
> experience to
> organize it
> as a form of
> meta-cognition. It is kind
> of
> possible to
> make that
> interpretation
> from
> Democracy
> and Education,
> although
> what I
> think he
> is doing more
> is arguing
> against
> misinterpretations of his
> work as
> random, child
> centered
> activities. I
> think he is
> clearer in
> Experience and
> Nature
> that we
> bring in who
> we are at the
> moment
> into the
> activity, and
> use who we
> are (I
> don't want
> to say
> identity) as an
> organizing
> principle for
> what we do. It
> is
> perhaps one of
> the places
> where Dewey
> and
> Vygotsky are
> close. Perhaps
> I can use
> the same
> Jackson
> Pollock
> example. The
> first few
> times I
> saw his
> paintings I was
> trying to
> "apprecitate" them because
> I was
> told that
> was the
> best way to
> experience
> them. Dewey says
> no vital
> experience
> there
> because my
> activities
> become stilted
> and artificia
> l.
> Sometimes
> I went through the
> museum
> and just
> looked at
> pictures, one to
> the other. No
> vital
> experience there,
> just random
> threads. But
> that time I had
> the
> experience
> with the
> paintings I was
> allowing
> who I
> was, what had
> been built up
> in the
> trajectory
> of my life to
> enter into
> my experience
> with the
> painting, making it
> a vital
> experience. I
> think Dewey
> makes
> the
> argument in
> Experience and
> Nature that
> it is not
> just
> the experience
> the moment
> before,
> but the
> experiences
> leading to
> that
> experience,
> the context of
> my life,
> of my
> parent's
> life, of a
> long line of
> historical
> experiences.
>
> Anyway,
> my take.
>
> Michael
>
> -
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Assistant
> Professor
> Department of
> Early
> Childhood and
> Art Education
> Brooklyn
> College, City
> University
> of New York
> 2900 Bedford
> Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY
> 11210-2889
>
> Email:
> bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>>
>
> Phone: (718)
> 951-5205 <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> Fax: (718)
> 951-4816 <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
>
>
>
> --
>
> Both environment and
> species
> change in the
> course of time, and thus
> ecological niches are
> not stable
> and given
> forever (Polotova &
> Storch,
> Ecological Niche, 2008)
>
>
>
> --
>
> Both environment and
> species change in the
> course of time, and thus
> ecological niches are not
> stable and given
> forever (Polotova & Storch,
> Ecological Niche, 2008)
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> -- Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Early Childhood and Art
> Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of
> New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>>
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> Fax: (718) 951-4816
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
> <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>>
> Phone: (718) 951-5205 <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> Fax: (718) 951-4816 <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> Phone: (718) 951-5205 <tel:%28718%29%20951-5205>
> Fax: (718) 951-4816 <tel:%28718%29%20951-4816>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Beth Ferholt
> Assistant Professor
> Department of Early Childhood and Art Education
> Brooklyn College, City University of New York
> 2900 Bedford Avenue
> Brooklyn, NY 11210-2889
>
> Email: bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu
> <mailto:bferholt@brooklyn.cuny.edu>
> Phone: (718) 951-5205
> Fax: (718) 951-4816
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