[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: English version of Cultural Model

[Dr. Paul C. Mocombe]

I raise the question to you mike bcuz I am trying to understand how education and schooling is not an ideological apparatus?


Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® II

<div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> </div><div>Date:07/08/2015  1:53 PM  (GMT-05:00) </div><div>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu> </div><div>Cc: "Madhere, Serge" <smadhere@howard.edu> </div><div>Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: English version of Cultural Model </div><div>
</div>Perhaps your response is more relevant to Greg's question than my answer,
Paul.

So far as i know, analysis of the work I refer to has not been extended to
include conditions of interaction where power differentials emerge and are
important to the shape of things to come. Nor do I recall anything about
the levels of intra-group consensus. Maybe the majority were mute!
mike

On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <
pmocombe@mocombeian.com> wrote:

> Mike,
>
> What I am interested in is the HOW would the new come from within a
> community of novices?  W.E.B Du Bois (1803) suggested his "talented tenth"
> program for black america.  That is, the talented tenth of black america
> educated in western society would be the new leaders of the community
> leading them to a "new" modernity without racism (as the old modernity was
> built of the intellectual inferiority of the so-called negro) .  E.
> Franklin Frazier (1936) argued instead they became a simulacra of white
> folks, "the black bourgeoisie."  Carter g. Woodson (1933) took it further
> and argued they became miseducated.
>
> Historically speaking, in the african diaspora, the majority of the
> african novices in modernity did not create anything new.  The majority
> reproduced the discourse and discursive practices of their former colonial
> masters, what frantz fanon called black - skinned white masked individuals.
>
>
> Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® II
>
> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: mike cole <
> mcole@ucsd.edu> </div><div>Date:07/08/2015  12:56 PM  (GMT-05:00)
> </div><div>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> </div><div>Cc: "Madhere, Serge" <smadhere@howard.edu> </div><div>Subject:
> [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: English version of Cultural Model </div><div>
> </div>I have no idea where you get your reading of LSV and creativity,
> Greg. I am
> not sure who the person with the correct interpretation of Vygotsky is, so
> can't help there.With respect to his ideas on creativity many
> knowledgeable folk are "present" on xmca and can perhaps help.
>
>
> I think I might be able to  provide an answer that accords with my
> understanding to the question you pose. Your question :
>
> *Can we imagine the "new" coming from within a community (of novices!)
> rather than from without? *
>
> We do not have to imagine this happening in so far as as direct observation
> is infused with imagining. We can rely upon empirical data. In  *Cultural
> Psychology *and elsewhere I have turned to the work of Rose and Felton
> (1955) on creation and diffusion of culture in small groups, work which has
> been extended in Schaller and Crandall (2004). Very bare bones but it seems
> to be an illustration of the "new" coming from within a community of
> novices. I have taken these bare bones and added to them Gary Allen Fine's
> description of the formation of idioculture and applied that idea to
> watching the genesis of a new 5thDimension from rumors
> of one that existed once somewhere by people in a new her and now. Seems
> like I see a thread of joint mediated action-in-activity running from its
> bare bones to to its live performance.
>
> Also seems like a way to approach the study of language emergence
> Nicaraguan sign, a contested history.
>
> mike
>
>
> PS-- Rose and Felton attached. Do not know if a pdf of the book exists.
>
> someoneone calling our "wildfire is down" and
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> > ​A colleague was just telling me of Michel-Rolph Trouillot's book on the
> > Haitian Revolution, *Silencing the Past: Power and the Production of
> > History*. One of the things that he mentioned was that Trouillot points
> to
> > the general non-recognizability of what happened in Haiti - here was the
> > first black republic and the first central American nation to declare
> > independence from colonialism and yet almost no one had written about it.
> > In the historical consciousness (of North Americans), it was as if it
> never
> > happened - an "unthinkable history". At the time of its happening, it was
> > truly unthinkable - notions of liberty among a Black populace was an
> > impossible thing for white Europeans to imagine.
> >
> > And yet, it happened.
> >
> > In connection with questions about "the end in the beginning" and the
> > (seeming?) necessity of the expert-novice relationship, I wonder if this
> > might be a blind spot for Vygotsky-ian theorizing vis a vis creativity,
> > innovation, and the "new"?
> >
> > With respect to Haiti, it seems like something new is coming into being.
> So
> > then, how do we imagine this new-ness of being? The default Vygotsky-ian
> > approach seems to be that the new development comes from the
> > already-fully-formed. In the case of Haiti, this could lead down the
> > unfortunate path of seeing the Haitian situation (the new) as being
> > dependent upon the European colonizers (the fully-formed). This seems to
> > me, in a sense, to return us to the view that there was "nothing new" in
> > the Haitian revolution.
> >
> > This is a potential blind spot that I was pointing to with Packer's piece
> > as well as in the case of Nicaraguan sign language. Can we imagine the
> > "new" coming from within a community (of novices!) rather than from
> > without?
> >
> > I'd welcome corrections here to my thinking about Vygotsky, CHAT, and/or
> > Haiti. Please.
> >
> > -greg
> >
> > ​
> >
> > On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <
> > pmocombe@mocombeian.com
> > > wrote:
> >
> > > Dr. Madhere  has provided the English version of the kreyol charts I
> sent
> > > in a previous email.  I am waiting for the paper.
> > >
> > >
> > > Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® II
> > >
> > > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Madhere,
> Serge"
> > > <smadhere@Howard.edu> </div><div>Date:07/04/2015  9:36 AM  (GMT-05:00)
> > > </div><div>To: pmocombe@mocombeian.com </div><div>Subject: English
> > > version of Cultural Model </div><div>
> > > </div>Mr Mocombe,
> > >
> > >
> > > As you requested, please find attached the English version of the
> slides
> > > from my model on culture and education.
> > >
> > >
> > > Serge Madhere PhD
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > Assistant Professor
> > Department of Anthropology
> > 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > Brigham Young University
> > Provo, UT 84602
> > http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >
>
>
>
> --
>
> All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes
> you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something
> that isn't even visible. N. McLean, *A River Runs Through it*
>



-- 

All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes
you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something
that isn't even visible. N. McLean, *A River Runs Through it*