[Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: English version of Cultural Model

[HENRY SHONERD]

I wonder if there is a connection here with the “unschooling” movements out there amongst the mainstream, or the “deschooling” of Ivan Illich. 
Henry


> On Jul 8, 2015, at 11:53 AM, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> 
> Perhaps your response is more relevant to Greg's question than my answer,
> Paul.
> 
> So far as i know, analysis of the work I refer to has not been extended to
> include conditions of interaction where power differentials emerge and are
> important to the shape of things to come. Nor do I recall anything about
> the levels of intra-group consensus. Maybe the majority were mute!
> mike
> 
> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 10:42 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <
> pmocombe@mocombeian.com> wrote:
> 
>> Mike,
>> 
>> What I am interested in is the HOW would the new come from within a
>> community of novices?  W.E.B Du Bois (1803) suggested his "talented tenth"
>> program for black america.  That is, the talented tenth of black america
>> educated in western society would be the new leaders of the community
>> leading them to a "new" modernity without racism (as the old modernity was
>> built of the intellectual inferiority of the so-called negro) .  E.
>> Franklin Frazier (1936) argued instead they became a simulacra of white
>> folks, "the black bourgeoisie."  Carter g. Woodson (1933) took it further
>> and argued they became miseducated.
>> 
>> Historically speaking, in the african diaspora, the majority of the
>> african novices in modernity did not create anything new.  The majority
>> reproduced the discourse and discursive practices of their former colonial
>> masters, what frantz fanon called black - skinned white masked individuals.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® II
>> 
>> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: mike cole <
>> mcole@ucsd.edu> </div><div>Date:07/08/2015  12:56 PM  (GMT-05:00)
>> </div><div>To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>> </div><div>Cc: "Madhere, Serge" <smadhere@howard.edu> </div><div>Subject:
>> [Xmca-l] Re: Fwd: English version of Cultural Model </div><div>
>> </div>I have no idea where you get your reading of LSV and creativity,
>> Greg. I am
>> not sure who the person with the correct interpretation of Vygotsky is, so
>> can't help there.With respect to his ideas on creativity many
>> knowledgeable folk are "present" on xmca and can perhaps help.
>> 
>> 
>> I think I might be able to  provide an answer that accords with my
>> understanding to the question you pose. Your question :
>> 
>> *Can we imagine the "new" coming from within a community (of novices!)
>> rather than from without? *
>> 
>> We do not have to imagine this happening in so far as as direct observation
>> is infused with imagining. We can rely upon empirical data. In  *Cultural
>> Psychology *and elsewhere I have turned to the work of Rose and Felton
>> (1955) on creation and diffusion of culture in small groups, work which has
>> been extended in Schaller and Crandall (2004). Very bare bones but it seems
>> to be an illustration of the "new" coming from within a community of
>> novices. I have taken these bare bones and added to them Gary Allen Fine's
>> description of the formation of idioculture and applied that idea to
>> watching the genesis of a new 5thDimension from rumors
>> of one that existed once somewhere by people in a new her and now. Seems
>> like I see a thread of joint mediated action-in-activity running from its
>> bare bones to to its live performance.
>> 
>> Also seems like a way to approach the study of language emergence
>> Nicaraguan sign, a contested history.
>> 
>> mike
>> 
>> 
>> PS-- Rose and Felton attached. Do not know if a pdf of the book exists.
>> 
>> someoneone calling our "wildfire is down" and
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jul 8, 2015 at 8:47 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> ​A colleague was just telling me of Michel-Rolph Trouillot's book on the
>>> Haitian Revolution, *Silencing the Past: Power and the Production of
>>> History*. One of the things that he mentioned was that Trouillot points
>> to
>>> the general non-recognizability of what happened in Haiti - here was the
>>> first black republic and the first central American nation to declare
>>> independence from colonialism and yet almost no one had written about it.
>>> In the historical consciousness (of North Americans), it was as if it
>> never
>>> happened - an "unthinkable history". At the time of its happening, it was
>>> truly unthinkable - notions of liberty among a Black populace was an
>>> impossible thing for white Europeans to imagine.
>>> 
>>> And yet, it happened.
>>> 
>>> In connection with questions about "the end in the beginning" and the
>>> (seeming?) necessity of the expert-novice relationship, I wonder if this
>>> might be a blind spot for Vygotsky-ian theorizing vis a vis creativity,
>>> innovation, and the "new"?
>>> 
>>> With respect to Haiti, it seems like something new is coming into being.
>> So
>>> then, how do we imagine this new-ness of being? The default Vygotsky-ian
>>> approach seems to be that the new development comes from the
>>> already-fully-formed. In the case of Haiti, this could lead down the
>>> unfortunate path of seeing the Haitian situation (the new) as being
>>> dependent upon the European colonizers (the fully-formed). This seems to
>>> me, in a sense, to return us to the view that there was "nothing new" in
>>> the Haitian revolution.
>>> 
>>> This is a potential blind spot that I was pointing to with Packer's piece
>>> as well as in the case of Nicaraguan sign language. Can we imagine the
>>> "new" coming from within a community (of novices!) rather than from
>>> without?
>>> 
>>> I'd welcome corrections here to my thinking about Vygotsky, CHAT, and/or
>>> Haiti. Please.
>>> 
>>> -greg
>>> 
>>> ​
>>> 
>>> On Sat, Jul 4, 2015 at 8:05 AM, Dr. Paul C. Mocombe <
>>> pmocombe@mocombeian.com
>>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Dr. Madhere  has provided the English version of the kreyol charts I
>> sent
>>>> in a previous email.  I am waiting for the paper.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent on a Sprint Samsung Galaxy Note® II
>>>> 
>>>> <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From: "Madhere,
>> Serge"
>>>> <smadhere@Howard.edu> </div><div>Date:07/04/2015  9:36 AM  (GMT-05:00)
>>>> </div><div>To: pmocombe@mocombeian.com </div><div>Subject: English
>>>> version of Cultural Model </div><div>
>>>> </div>Mr Mocombe,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As you requested, please find attached the English version of the
>> slides
>>>> from my model on culture and education.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Serge Madhere PhD
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>> Assistant Professor
>>> Department of Anthropology
>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>> Brigham Young University
>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> 
>> All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes
>> you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something
>> that isn't even visible. N. McLean, *A River Runs Through it*
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> All there is to thinking is seeing something noticeable which makes
> you see something you weren't noticing which makes you see something
> that isn't even visible. N. McLean, *A River Runs Through it*