[Xmca-l] Re: Laws of evolution and laws of history

[Rod Parker-Rees]

Hi Mike,

I was responding to your question, 'what is the difference between education and propaganda ...?' with the probably oversimplistic suggestion that whereas propaganda is about propagating (reproducing) an existing set of beliefs/knowledge - evangelising the Catholic faith, for example - education may (should?) be more about encouraging people to go beyond what you already know. The 'you' in my message is not Mike Cole but a generic you!

All the best,
Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
Sent: 17 January 2015 21:16
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Laws of evolution and laws of history

Rod-- I am flumuxed by your message:

Here is what I wrote:

Oh! I see what you are discussing. The Park that used to celebrate the great achievements of the USSR on Peace Street.

A really good Vygotskian analysis of the term, propaganda, would be fascinating to read.
As I recall the word came into the English language from Latin and a Papal decision to "propogate the faith". Seems apt in the Soviet case.  At the level of social interaction where we are professionally involved and have some presumably, useful knowledge to propagate (why else do They pay for us?), how do we think of self presentation that is NOT propagating?

When teaching, this topic comes up in seeking to get students to distinguish between education and propaganda, starting with the course they are taking from me on the history of communication and with it, the history of propaganda.

So what is the difference between education and propaganda. My students and I often had difficulty distinguishing them.
---------------------

I really do not know what you mean. Sorry to be dense.
mike

On Sat, Jan 17, 2015 at 1:50 AM, Rod Parker-Rees < R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk> wrote:

> Mike - is it too simplistic to say that education is about leading out
> (divergence) whereas propaganda is about leading in (convergence)? If
> you know before you begin exactly what you want your students to end
> up knowing and believing you may be more engaged in propaganda than education.
>
> Rod
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
> Sent: 17 January 2015 02:46
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Laws of evolution and laws of history
>
> Oh! I see what you are discussing. The Park that used to celebrate the
> great achievements of the USSR on Peace Street.
>
> A really good Vygotskian analysis of the term, propaganda, would be
> fascinating to read.
> As I recall the word came into the English language from Latin and a
> Papal decision to "propogate the faith". Seems apt in the Soviet case.
> At the level of social interaction where we are professionally
> involved and have some presumably, useful knowledge to propagate (why
> else do They pay for us?), how do we think of self presentation that is NOT propagating?
>
> When teaching, this topic comes up in seeking to get students to
> distinguish between education and propaganda, starting with the course
> they are taking from me on the history of communication and with it,
> the history of propaganda.
>
> So what is the difference between education and propaganda. My
> students and I often had difficulty distinguishing them.
>
>
> mike
>
> On Fri, Jan 16, 2015 at 5:24 PM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
> wrote:
>
> > Hi Philip,
> >
> > Yes, because if we go by the rubric of [sign mediates internally
> > with the mind], and [tool mediates externally with the environment],
> > which I do
> not
> > reject by the way, then propaganda (as intended), is a tool to the
> > one
> who
> > produces it (because it is intended to influence the environment of
> others,
> > and a sign for those who consume it (the intended others to be
> influenced).
> >
> > My inquiry isn't exactly upon traditionally-considered political
> > propaganda; one could also see advertising as a type of propaganda
> > as
> well.
> > Even punishment and humiliations can be a type of propaganda, "pour
> > encourager les autres."
> >
> > In a sense, propaganda is a kind of duck-rabbit. You see duck, I see
> > rabbit, depending upon what is externally projected/internally
> > received; nothing changes about the drawing itself, it's all perception.
> >
> > Is this too facile? I feel there may be problems, and appeal to the
> > list to correct me on this. :)
> >
> > Thinking out loud... your mileage may vary!
> >
> > Kind regards,
> >
> > Annalisa
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
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--
It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
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