[Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context

Sun Jan 4 12:38:40 PST 2015

I am still catching up, but I want to testify to my listening: I am heartend by weaving “truth” into this thread. Thanks to Larry! If it is “romantic” it is not overly romantic. And without hope, I get depressed, suicidally depressed, unable to act. The A of CHAT. Perhaps there is somebody listening in who has not experienced hopelessness. I’m listening.
Henry

> On Jan 3, 2015, at 2:37 PM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Martin's chapter 4 [page 95] *hermeneutics and the project for a human
> science* may contribute something general to *living in truth* that is
> never objective, but always prejudiced or preconceived. Martin, commenting
> on Gadamer's "philosophical hermeneutics [in contrast to Romantic
> hermeneutics], references Bernstein:
> 
> There are some forms of prejudice that we must have the courage to confront
> - such as racism or sexism.  But our preconceptions are our involvement in
> history, our participation in traditional cultural practices.  They "have a
> threefold temporal character
> - they are handed down to us through tradition;
> - they are constitutive of what we are now (and are in the process of
> becoming);
> - and they are anticipatory - always OPEN to future testing and
> transformation.
> Our preconceptions set limits beyond which we DO NOT SEE, but they are not
> fixed and we are constantly testing them.  One important way we test our
> preconceptions [prejudices] is THROUGH encounters with other people.
> 
> On page 94 Martin explores the notion of *truth*. Gadamer points out there
> is no objective foolproof method leading to *truth*. But Gadamer did NOT
> believe there was NO truth. We need to think differently about *truth*: A
> true interpretation IS one which points out something RELEVANT in our
> present situation that we had not noticed.
> 
> Therefore *truth* is an encounter with the other that is relevant to our
> current prejudices and preconceptions. To *live in truth* requires
> re-search such as testimonio [not research as objective truth].
> 
> Others may consider this approach itself as too *romantic* but it does
> explore ways of arriving at a fusion of horizons [both fusion and tension]
> that includes critique and confronting our inevitable prejudices in a
> dialogical *spirit* of *hearing each other into voice*.
> Is this hopelessly optimistic and obscure or is it possibly relevant to
> overcoming prejudices?
> No demonizing the other but still honouring relevant *truth*
> 
> Larry
> 
> On Sat, Jan 3, 2015 at 12:50 PM, <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
>> Helena,
>> I was hoping that others might be able to tell me that this has already
>> been done. Seems like lots of people are in this kind of game but nobody
>> has really talked about it explicitly (as far as I can tell - maybe some
>> whiteness theorists but in a very circumscribed way). and I'm quite certain
>> that no one has deal with it in a sufficiently sophisticated manner to be
>> able to hedge off the kinds of concerns that Francine raises.
>> Anyone have any thoughts? Perhaps this should be a different thread?
>> And yes, Freire has this on his radar but not nearly explicitly enough to
>> where it could be employed I. Some meaningful way in practice.
>> Greg
>> Ps, and yes my comment entirely sidesteps definitional issues of who
>> counts as subaltern or not. That is a huge  and mucky issue. But not sure
>> it is worth getting bogged down in it...
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On Jan 3, 2015, at 12:24 PM, Helena Worthen <helenaworthen@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Greg -- that's a great idea.  I think is has been done, but without a
>> label. Want to nominate an example?
>>> 
>>> Helena
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Helena Worthen
>>> helenaworthen@gmail.com
>>> 
>>>> On Jan 3, 2015, at 8:21 AM, Greg Thompson wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Seems to me that Spivak's "Can the subaltern speak?" is just as much a
>>>> question of "Can the Western intellectual hear/listen?"
>>>> 
>>>> Makes me wonder about articulating a Pedagogy of the Oppressors.
>>>> 
>>>> -greg
>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Jan 1, 2015 at 7:58 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Miguel/Mike,
>>>>> 
>>>>> I think we have a testimonio here. We have questions borne out of a
>>>>> traumatic historical and social episode (WWII), followed by a movement
>>>>> outward "going East," only to discover one's self "Dewey." The self
>> becomes
>>>>> an allegory for the whole. It may seem that Spivak is saying
>> translation is
>>>>> impossible, but I think a testimonio shows the possibility of
>> translation.
>>>>> Thanks for this gift and happy new year!
>>>>> 
>>>>> Aria
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 2:23 PM
>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>> 
>>>>> I inherited such questions as part of my family history and my coming
>> to
>>>>> age during the period of post world war II decolonization, Aria, well
>>>>> before I travelled East, as you suggest. Interestingly, it was in
>> going in
>>>>> East that I discovered Dewey.... such was the form of education that
>> led to
>>>>> my phd.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Concerning misleading translations.
>>>>> I have PLENTY of problems with issues of translating Vygotsky, in words
>>>>> and in practice! Ask any Russian or scholar whose knowledge of Russian
>> was
>>>>> acquired after the age of 20! (Plenty right here on xmca, one I can see
>>>>> logged into gmail right now). There is a piece in MCA a while back on
>> the
>>>>> perils of translating a key term involving eaching/learning/instruction
>>>>> that is part of an ongoing set of questions about the meaning of the
>> term,
>>>>> zone of proximal development.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Peter's note with the distinction between decolonial/postcolonial
>> seems to
>>>>> pick up on some of the themes that various folks who participated in
>> the
>>>>> Migrant program are making.  Gotta check out wikipedia on third
>> spaces. The
>>>>> metaphor sure has a lot of homes in a lot of discourse communities and
>> I
>>>>> suspect that some translation will be needed!
>>>>> 
>>>>> mike
>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 11:49 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu>
>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mike, would you say that you have been seeking answers to these
>>>>>> questions by "going East"? I think Spivak would agree with the second
>>>>>> question. In "Translating into English" she talks about how
>>>>>> "generations of empiricist English translators have missed the point
>>>>>> with Marx's philosophical presuppositions, translated 'inhaltslos' as
>>>>>> 'slight in content' and thus made nonsense out of the entire
>>>>>> discussion of value. You may have had a smiliar experience translating
>>>>> Vygotsky.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here it is:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://przeklad.nazwa.pl/schowek/spivak2.pdf
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aria
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of mike cole
>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, December 31, 2014 1:07 PM
>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Aria--- I had not read the Spivak article, although the question she
>>>>>> asks is one I have been asking myself for half a century. And, I would
>>>>>> add, under what conditions?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I found the article here in case others share my ignorance.
>>>>>> mike
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>> http://www.mcgill.ca/files/crclaw-discourse/Can_the_subaltern_speak.pd
>>>>>> f
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Wed, Dec 31, 2014 at 10:31 AM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Larry,
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> The specific stance that is amplified by the intersections of "third
>>>>>>> space" post-colonial theory, sociocultural theory, and "testimonio"
>>>>>>> is somewhat apparent in the language choice. There is no English
>>>>>>> equivalent because there cannot be an English equivalent. At least,
>>>>>>> there cannot be an "English-Only" equivalent. It represents a
>>>>>>> movement toward an indigenous stance on voice, agency, knowledge,
>>>>>>> certainty, validity, language choice, and learning. I say a "movement
>>>>> toward"
>>>>>>> because Spanish itself carries similar baggage especially within the
>>>>>>> Latin American context. This is the rationale for why some use the
>>>>>>> Aztec idea of Nepantla instead of "Third Space" (e.g., Rochelle
>>>>>>> Guiterrez, Gloria Anzaldua). "Testimonio" further complicates what
>>>>>>> it means for "subalterns" to "reclaim voice" through the dominant
>>>>> voice.
>>>>>>> This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
>>>>>>> subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
>>>>>>> outside" the inscribed institutional roles, together in order to
>>>>>>> move "to the roots of our being human together." Spivak was
>>>>>>> specfically critiqueing "the Western intellectual" voice wondering
>>>>>>> if it truly could be a tool of liberation. It seems like a "core"
>>>>>>> identity question as we move through various historical
>>>>>>> entanglements seeking answers to ontological questions of self in
>>>>>>> relation to other. Also
>>>>>> looking forward to this type of re-search.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aria
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
>>>>>>> Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
>>>>>>> Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of Illinois
>>>>>>> at Chicago
>>>>>>> 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
>>>>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and Action
>>>>>>> Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Webpage: http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
>>>>>>> Tel: 312-413-8373
>>>>>>> Fax: 312-996-8134
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> This is the heart-wrenching question raised by Spivak, "Can the
>>>>>>> subaltern speak?" Both the altern and the subaltern need to "step
>>>>>>> outside" the inscribed roles, together in order to move "to the
>>>>>>> roots of our being human together." It seems like a "core" identity
>>>>>>> question as we move through various historical entanglements seeking
>>>>>>> answers to ontological questions of self in relation to other. Also
>>>>>>> looking forward to this type of re-search.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aria
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
>>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces+arazfar=uic.edu@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry
>>>>>>> xmca-l-bounces+Purss
>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 10:08 PM
>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aria,
>>>>>>> I want to repeat and amplify your suggestion :
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> It is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
>>>>>>> analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g., liminality,
>>>>>>> double consciousness, third place, etc.). The post-colonial uptake
>>>>>>> of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak) within the sociocultural
>>>>>>> theory is a very specific stance and this might be the moment for
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>> conversation as well.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> To focus on the *third space* as a VERY SPECIFIC stance.
>>>>>>> I would like to become clear on the centrality of *witnessing* as
>>>>>>> central or the re-search fades away.
>>>>>>> Also terms such as *mutuality* contrasted with *reciprocity* or
>>>>>>> *transactions*.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Testimonios as neither subjective [alone] or objective [alone] but a
>>>>>>> hybrid MODE that is a form of witnessing.
>>>>>>> I would also suggest the theme of *gift* as more than transaction or
>>>>>>> echange [in continental philosophy traditions] is relevant.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> There is a *spirit* and a moral virtue within this form of
>>>>>>> witnessing as *third space* that plays around with notions of
>>>>>>> *trans* as moving across forms [horizons] as trans-versals [or
>>>>> trans-verse-als] .
>>>>>>> I have an intuition that this type of witnessing is radical, going
>>>>>>> to the roots of our being human together.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Aria, I look forward to further re-search Larry
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> On Tue, Dec 30, 2014 at 12:00 PM, Aria Razfar <arazfar@uic.edu>
>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> For those of us working with Kris' sociocritical perspective,
>>>>>>>> third space has been a valuable construct for thinking about
>>>>>>>> collective learning zopeds and consciousness for that matter. It
>>>>>>>> is important to clarify what is meant by "third space" and its
>>>>>>>> analogous concepts in various schools of thought (e.g.,
>>>>>>>> liminality, double consciousness, third place, etc.). The
>>>>>>>> post-colonial uptake of third space (e.g., Said, Bhaba, Spivak)
>>>>>>>> within the sociocultural theory is a very specific stance and this
>>>>>>>> might be the moment for that conversation as
>>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aria
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Aria Razfar, Ph.D.
>>>>>>>> Associate Professor of Literacy, Language, and Culture Director of
>>>>>>>> Graduate Studies, Curriculum and Instruction University of
>>>>>>>> Illinois at Chicago
>>>>>>>> 1040 W. Harrison St. M/C 147
>>>>>>>> Chicago, IL, 60607
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Director of English Learning through Mathematics, Science and
>>>>>>>> Action Research (ELMSA) www.elmsa.org
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Webpage:
>>>>>>>> http://education.uic.edu/personnel/faculty/aria-razfar-phd
>>>>>>>> Tel: 312-413-8373
>>>>>>>> Fax: 312-996-8134
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>>>>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>>>>>>>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Kris
>>>>>>>> Gutierrez
>>>>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 2:56 PM
>>>>>>>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>>>>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Sociocritical Literacies and more context
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Annalisa, Manuel initiated the last uptake. (I think others have
>>>>>>>> clarified that now :)
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Mike C., Miguel Zavala, Larry Purss and I posted some thoughts
>>>>>>>> before the holidays.  For me it is useful to connect Manuel’s
>>>>>>>> recent post to those earlier thoughts/conversations.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Some very quick very unedited thoughts following up on Manuel’s
>> post:
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Michael G., Mike C. correctly points out that the
>>>>>>>> testimonios/autobiographies were not research techniques but
>>>>>>>> generative tools that were indeed a part of the interconnected set
>>>>>>>> of practices that created a collective zoped—a third space if you
>>>>> will.
>>>>>>>> I try to elaborate this idea in the Scribner Lecture piece
>>>>>>>> (sociocritical literacies).  My own work on Third Space, the
>>>>>>>> collective work of the instructional team of MSI, ongoing
>>>>>>>> conversations with Mike C. and Yrjo over the years at the lab, and
>>>>>>>> their work certainly informed this idea of a collective zoped,
>>>>>>>> collective third space  (See Engeström, 1987, 1994 in particular;
>>>>>>>> Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993; Tuomi-Gröhn & Engeström, 2003; Tuomi-
>>>>>>>> Gröhn, Engeström, & Young, 2003; Chaiklin, 2003, Moll, 1990; Moll
>>>>>>>> & Greenberg, 1990 as key examples that certainly inform this work
>>>>>>>> as
>>>>>> well.
>>>>>>> And LSV and Bakhtin are ever present).
>>>>>>>> These, I think, are useful references, all cited in the article.
>>>>>>>> Shirin Vossoughi’s recent MCA piece also is very relevant to this
>>>>>>> discussion.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Some relevant excerpts from the sociocritical article,
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> "To illustrate these points and their relation to a collective
>>>>>>>> Third Space, let us examine the MSLI more closely.
>>>>>>>> The activity system, the MSLI, has a specific internal logic
>>>>>>>> organized around expanding the students’ sociohistorical and
>>>>>>>> educational ecology through the collective imagining of a new
>>>>>>>> educational and sociopolitical future.
>>>>>>>> To avoid the “interactional reductionism implicit in much
>>>>>>>> Vygotskian-inspired research” (Nicolopoulou & Cole, 1993, p. 284),
>>>>>>>> the specific interactions and practices of the MSLI are understood
>>>>>>>> as what Nicolopoulou and Cole call a “genuinely collective reality”
>>>>>> (p. 284).
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Here we see the [Migrant] institute as an example of the Third
>>>>>>>> Space, a collective zo-ped, at the larger level of activity the
>>>>>>>> object of which is the sociohistorical reconstruction of what it
>>>>>>>> means to be a migrant student.
>>>>>>>> This movement involves a process of becoming conscious “historical
>>>>>>> actors”
>>>>>>>> (Espinoza, 2003) who invoke the past in order to re-mediate it so
>>>>>>>> that it becomes a resource for current and future action (p. 154)."
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Testimonios and their embodiment in Teatro del Oprimido (Boal’s
>>>>>>>> Theatre of the Oppressed that Manuel introduced to us and the
>>>>>>>> program and that he and Vossoughi elaborated) were key means of
>>>>>>>> developing/inciting a new social and pedagogical imagination and
>>>>>>>> for imagining new futures with/for the migrant students, their
>>>>>>>> communities, and indeed for all of us, as Manuel so thoughtfully
>>>>>>>> writes. Teatro served as a collective problem-solving space—a
>>>>>>>> space where the playful imagination helped to make inequities and
>>>>>>>> the roots of social problems visible, while providing an
>>>>>>>> opportunity to re-frame events, re-mediate and enact an imagined
>>>>>>>> future collectively (such as flying collectively/social dreaming).
>>>>>>>> I hope Manuel and Shirin jump in and elaborate these thoughts.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Re: Research design:  For me, Migrant was in Yrjo and Mike's
>>>>>>>> approach, a formative experiment; what I term social design
>>>>>>>> experiments—a designed based research approach that foregrounds
>>>>>>>> equity, diversity, historicity, and re-mediation, for example. As
>>>>>>>> Susan Jurow and I wrote and presented at the ICLS conference this
>>>>>>>> summer (a piece that we expect will be part of a larger set of
>>>>>>>> papers with Mike C., Yrjo and Annalisa, and Bill Penuel), social
>>>>>>>> design experiments: aim to make possible a sustainable and
>>>>>>>> dignified life for all humans; address the challenges of
>>>>>>>> leveraging cultural diversity and reducing social inequality; and
>>>>>>>> call for the co-design of new tools and futures with members of
>>>>>>>> non-dominant communities, as but a few key design principles.
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   Absolutely, research as re-searching—searching for the answer
>>>>>>>> to a question you have searched for repeatedly without success!
>>>>>>>> Well said, Miguel Cole! Thanks, for your thoughts, Michael Glassman!
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>   more on sociocritical literacies, later.   kris
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kris Gutierrez
>>>>>>>> gutierkd@gmail.com
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Kris D. Gutiérrez
>>>>>>>> Professor
>>>>>>>> Graduate School of Education
>>>>>>>> 5629 Tolman Hall #1670
>>>>>>>> University of California, Berkeley Berkeley CA 94720-1670
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Distinguished Professor
>>>>>>>> Learning Sciences and Literacy
>>>>>>>> School of Education
>>>>>>>> University of Colorado, Boulder
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> On Dec 30, 2014, at 9:50 AM, Annalisa Aguilar <annalisa@unm.edu>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Hello!
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> Sorry for being silly here, but I couldn't help but see that so
>>>>>>>>> far on
>>>>>>>> this thread, there have been appearances by:
>>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>>> mike, Annalisa, Michael, Luisa, and Miguel!
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
>>>>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> It is the dilemma of psychology to deal with a natural science as an
>>>>> object that creates history. Ernst Boesch.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> --
>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>> 880 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 