[Xmca-l] Re: Fun &Games

[mike cole]

My queries were going in a direction with yours, Rolf. Play is a leading
activity in LSV-Elkonin-Leontiev. But somehow developmental psychologists
do not
appear to make use of the term and I do not know who does.

Robert's etymology is certainly interesting. Modern usage seems to still
have a bit of that tricksterism dwelling within it.

And, like Helen, the way this confused semantic space is organized in
different languages is fascinating. I have been playing with
english-russian and then checking various options for backtranslationg.

A tangled web, me thinks.

I have this feeling that imagination plays different roles in the two
domains, however they turn out to be constituted.

mike



That's great, Robert.

I have been playing with translations and back-translations between Russian
and English.

On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 7:30 AM, Robert Lake <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>
wrote:

> It is interesting (and fun) to look up word origins in the OED.
> which reveals a significant cultural/historically shaped evolution.
> See below.
> *Robert*
>
> *Oxford English Dictionary*
>
> *Etymology:*  probably < fun *v.*
> <http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/75468#eid3558958>
>
>
>
> †*1.* A cheat or trick; a hoax, a practical joke.
>
> 1699   B. E. *New Dict. Canting Crew*   *Fun*, a Cheat or slippery Trick.
>
> 1719   in T. D'Urfey *Wit & Mirth* V. 259   A Hackney Coachman he did buy
> her, And was not this a very good Fun.
>
>
>
>  *2.*
>
>
>
>  *a.* Diversion, amusement, sport; also, boisterous jocularity or gaiety,
> drollery. Also, a source or cause of amusement or pleasure.(Johnson 1755
> stigmatizes it as ‘a low cant word’; in present use it is merely somewhat
> familiar.)
>
> 1727   Swift *Misc. Epit. By-words*   Tho' he talk'd much of virtue, his
> head always run Upon something or other she found better fun.
>
> 1749   H. Fielding *Tom Jones* III. ix. vi. 354   Partridge..was a great
> Lover of what is called Fun.
>
> 1751   E. Moore *Gil Blas* Prol. sig. A3,   Don't mind me tho'— For all my
> Fun and Jokes.
>
> 1767   H. Brooke *Fool of Quality* I. 99   Vindex..looked smilingly about
> him with much fun in his face.
>
> *a*1774   A. Tucker *Light of Nature Pursued* (1777) III. iii. 10   It is
> fun to them to break off an ornament, or disfigure a statue.
>
> 1790   R. Burns *Tam o' Shanter* in *Poems & Songs* (1968) II. 561   The
> mirth and fun grew fast and furious.
>
> 1836   Dickens *Pickwick Papers* (1837) ii. 7   ‘What's the fun?’ said a
> rather tall thin young man.
>
> 1845   S. C. Hall *Bk. Gems* 90   His wit and humour delightful, when it
> does not degenerate into ‘fun’.
>
> 1849   E. E. Napier *Excursions Southern Afr.* II. 331   Being better
> mounted than the rest of his troop, [he] pushed on to see more of the fun.
>
> 1887   M. Shearman *Athletics & Football* 325   Most footballers play for
> the fun and the fun alone.
>
> 1889   J. K. Jerome *Idle Thoughts* 42   There is no fun in doing nothing
> when you have nothing to do.
>
> 1891   S. Baring-Gould *In Troubadour-land* iv. 50,   I do not see the fun
> of going to hotels of the first class.
>
> 1934   *Punch* 9 May 526/1   A Rector in an unapostolic fury is rather fun.
>
> 1954   *Economist* 20 Mar.   His book has all the charm of science fiction;
> it is enormous fun.
>
> 1958   *Listener* 25 Dec. 1085/1   The clothes were Jacobean, and fun to
> wear.
>
> *(Hide quotations)*
> <
> http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/75467?rskey=SpD3uz&result=1&isAdvanced=false
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>  *b.* Phr. *to make fun of* , *poke fun at* (a person, etc.): to
> ridicule. *for or in
> fun* : as a joke, sportively, not seriously. *(he, it is) good, great fun*
> :
> a source of much amusement. *like fun*: energetically, very quickly,
> vigorously. *what fun!* how very amusing! *for the fun of the thing*: for
> amusement; *to have fun (with)* : to enjoy (a process); *spec.* to have
> sexual intercourse.
>
> 1737   H. Walpole *Corr.* (1820) I. 17,   I can't help making fun of
> myself.
>
> 1826   M. M. Sherwood *Lady of Manor* (ed. 2) IV. xxi. 247   Then you won't
> make fun of me, will you?
>
> 1834   S. Smith *Sel. Lett. Major Jack Downing* ix. 24   They put their
> hats on and began to laugh like fun.
>
> 1840   T. Hood *Up Rhine* 145   The American..in a dry way began to ‘poke
> his fun’ at the unfortunate traveller.
>
> 1848   J. R. Lowell *Biglow Papers* 1st Ser. iv. 98   Stickin' together
> like fun.
>
> 1848   E. C. Gaskell *Mary Barton* I. v. 73   Carsons' mill is blazing away
> like fun.
>
> 1849   E. Bulwer-Lytton *Caxtons* I. i. iv. 29   You would be very sorry if
> your mamma was to..break it for fun.
>
> 1857   T. Hughes *Tom Brown's School Days* ii. iii. 273   The bolts went to
> like fun.
>
> 1860   T. P. Thompson *Audi Alteram Partem* III. cxxvi. 82   Who knows but
> Volunteer Rifles may make a campaign in the Holy Land, and mount guard over
> the production of the holy fire at Easter? ‘What fun!’
>
> 1871   B. Jowett tr. Plato *Dialogues* I. 145   He may pretend in fun that
> he has a bad memory.
>
> 1876   M. M. Grant *Sun-maid* I. iii. 104   The races are great fun.
>
> 1877   *Independent* 19 July 15/2   Little Tad commissioned lieutenant by
> Stanton, ‘just for the fun of the thing’.
>
> 1891   N. Gould *Double Event* 1   He's such good fun, and he's so
> obliging.
>
> 1893   J. S. Farmer & W. E. Henley *Slang* III. 86/2   *To have* (or *do*)
> *a
> bit of fun*, to procure or enjoy the sexual favour.
>
> 1895   H. A. Kennedy in *19th Cent.* Aug. 331,   I suppose the wood-carver
> was poking fun at him?
>
> 1903   M. Beerbohm *Around Theatres* (1924) I. 425   Amateur mimes..go in
> for private theatricals..just for the fun of the thing.
>
> 1958   *Times Lit. Suppl.* 7 Feb. 73/4   The clerks..get their own back by
> unmasking frauds and..having fun with the low standard of French commercial
> honesty.
>
> 1961   M. Dickens *Heart of London* ii. 198   Ambrosia had pushed Edgar and
> the girl in there with the admonition to have some fun, dears.
>
> *(Hide quotations)*
> <
> http://www.oed.com/view/Entry/75467?rskey=SpD3uz&result=1&isAdvanced=false
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  *c.* Exciting goings-on. Also *fun and games*, freq. used ironically;
> *spec.* amatory play. *colloq.*
>
> 1879   W. J. Barry *Up & Down* vii. 51   We..had a good passage to
> Hong-Kong. When we arrived, the first Chinese war with Britain had broken
> out, and there was every appearance of plenty of fun to be shortly had with
> the Chinkies.
>
> 1897   *Daily News* 13 Sept. 7/1   The engineer officers who are engaged in
> carrying out some of the Sirdar's plans get much more than their fair share
> of ‘the fun’.
>
> 1898   *Westm. Gaz.* 28 Oct. 3/1   It is possible that there may be rare
> fun by-and-by on the Nile.
>
> 1920   ‘Sapper’ *Bull-dog Drummond* vi. 155   We've had lots of fun and
> games since I last saw you.
>
> 1940   N. Mitford *Pigeon Pie* iii. 66   Farther on, however, you come to
> jolly fun and games—great notices.
>
> 1948   E. Partridge *Dict. Forces' Slang* 78   *Fun and games*, any sort of
> brush with the enemy at sea.
>
> 1948   ‘N. Shute’ *No Highway* iii. 70   ‘Fun and games,’ he said. ‘The
> boffin's going mad.’
>
> 1952   E. Grierson *Reputation for Song* xxix. 260   Beneath the orderly
> conduct of her bar there was always present the possibility of ‘fun and
> games’.
>
> 1954   C. Armstrong *Better to eat You* ii. 22   If it happened because
> somebody is having fun-and-games with Miss Sarah Shepherd, somebody is
> going to be sorry.
>
> 1966   J. Porter *Sour Cream* v. 59,   I headed the car in the direction of
> the coast road. We had the usual fun and games with the local drivers.
>
> 1970   *Globe & Mail (Toronto) *26 Sept. B3/3   Mr. Brown also expects the
> fun and games of tax haven subsidiaries to disappear with the new
> legislation.
>
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 19, 2015 at 10:17 AM, Andrew Babson <ababson@umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > Mike, first as an aside, I tried to post this earlier and it got
> rejected,
> > so, updating my contact info now. A sign I should get more active here?
> >
> > Thanks for the great question, which is relevant to an approach
> > I am developing for analyzing interactional choices of young people. On
> > another level of analysis, we can think of the wide range of ideologies
> of
> > life course stages, specifically how certain kinds of play and fun are
> > expected of accepted at certain ages; and also how those ideologies are
> > different and similar culturally and historically.
> >
> > For what I'm working on the first interactional level is more relevant
> > to class, culture and education and the latter about youth and culture
> > across the lifespan. The twain do meet in that we often think of
> > experimentation, dynamism, flexibility and freedom when we think of play
> > and also when we think of youth, whether referring to childhood or young
> > adulthood.
> >
> > It's not a big step to consider where "fun" might fit in this
> conversation.
> > As an LSE anthro grad I can't also help but think of the relation of this
> > conversation to Maurice Bloch's work in Madagascar on the constitution of
> > the body and how it is expected to change through and after life, namely
> as
> > we get older we get bonier and therefore closer to the ancestors who are
> > physically only bone. It's interesting to think of how far we can or
> should
> > carry these analogic ideological constructions---the young spirit like
> > cartilage and the old spirit like bone---and how they relate to the
> above!
> >
> > Andrew
> >
> > ---------------
> >
> > Andrew Babson, Ph.D.
> > Lecturer
> > Graduate School of Education
> > University of Pennsylvania
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Monday, August 17, 2015, mike cole <mcole@ucsd.edu> wrote:
> >
> > > I have been led to wonder -- what is the relationship between having
> fun
> > > and playing.  How do they differ? Does their relationship, if they are
> > not
> > > reducible one to the other, change over the course of development? Odd
> > how
> > > the category of fun is absent from developmental discourse.
> > > Mike
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > >
> > > It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
> > > object that creates history. Ernst Boesch
> > >
> >
> >
> > --
> > sent from my phone
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Robert Lake  Ed.D.
> Associate Professor
> Social Foundations of Education
> Dept. of Curriculum, Foundations, and Reading
> Georgia Southern University
> Secretary/Treasurer-AERA- Paulo Freire Special Interest Group
> P. O. Box 8144
> Phone: (912) 478-0355
> Fax: (912) 478-5382
> Statesboro, GA  30460
> *He not busy being born is busy dying.*
> Bob Dylan (1964).
>



-- 

It is the dilemma of psychology to deal as a natural science with an
object that creates history. Ernst Boesch