[Xmca-l] Re: Questioning universal core emotions

Mon May 12 23:48:25 PDT 2014

I hope someone will be able to throw some light on whether there are different 'levels' of pain processing - or at least of processing of information signalling different forms of stress/distress. So some signals will lead to unconscious reactions while others will 'escalate' to conscious awareness (I suppose some would argue that only these would count as pain signals) and only these latter admit 'conscious interference' or opportunities for decision making.

Rod

-----Original Message-----
From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Tvmathdude
Sent: 12 May 2014 15:47
To: xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Questioning universal core emotions

I see pain as a communication from one part off my body to several others. In some areas the reaction is automatic and instant. In others I see our ability - to different degrees - to choose our reaction. In my own body, I view pain and its manifestation as separate. Cause - effect - reaction.

What would Vygotsky say?

Roger

-----Original Message-----
From: Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com>
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
Sent: Sat, May 10, 2014 1:38 pm
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Questioning universal core emotions

Hi

I think that even pain can be controlled.  It's tempting to say this this is universal since is is part of our physiology, but people can control the degree they register pain, some to a remarkable extent.  Then too our outward manifestation of pain will also be relative.

Carol

On 6 May 2014 20:28, Elinami Swai <swaiev@gmail.com> wrote:

> I believe that pain, just like feeling is universal. But I also
> believe that emotion (which we can also call expression) is learned
> and thus may differ from one individual to another. We make
> interpretations of emotion and expression from our own points of view.
>
>
> On 5/6/14, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > David, although I am sure that sensations cannot be taken as
> > universal either, since it is unlikely that there is anything
> > remaining after the interprettion of the "sensation" is abstracted.
> > However, it is nonetheless a different claim to say that human
> > sensation is not universal, as to say human emotion (by which is
> > meant I think "feeling") is not universal. Let's suppose all are
> > experiencing pain: they are all clearly feeling different about it.
> >
> > Or was that your point?
> >
> > Andy
> > --------------------------------------------------------------------
> > ----
> > *Andy Blunden*
> > http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> >
> >
> > David Kellogg wrote:
> >> Suppose I put together a set of pictures of people undergoing
> >> torture,
> in
> >> which some people appeared to be experiencing the torture
> >> stoically, others with resignation, still others with agony, and
> >> some with something that appears to be laughter.
> >>
> >> I think I could probably crop the photographs and pose questions in
> >> such a way that I could very convincingly demonstrate that pain is
> >> not a universal human sensation. Not only that, I could probably
> >> put together a sorting exercise that would come to the same
> >> conclusion.
> >>
> >> David Kellogg
> >> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
> >>
> >>
> >> On 5 May 2014 01:24, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >>> I have a colleague down the hall, David Crandall, that has been
> >>> working among the Himba for almost 30 years. I also have three
> >>> students headed to do research among the Himba in a month. So I've
> >>> been picking up some interesting details about the Himba.
> >>>
> >>> It seems like it is true that they have increasingly had contact
> >>> with Western culture, as evidenced by recent protests in some of
> >>> the larger cities that were staged by Himba opposed to the
> >>> building of a dam that would cause flooding of some of the burial
> >>> sites of their ancestors ( http://www.huntingtonnews.net/84854).
> >>>
> >>> At the same time, they are non-numerate people that lack some of
> >>> the
> key
> >>> Western institutions where kids learn (oddly enough) about "emotions"
> >>> (think of those pictures of happy and sad faces that Western
> >>> schooling takes into the classroom as the MEANS by which they
> >>> teach literacy - these means of teaching literacy always entail
> >>> certain cultural ends - such
> as
> >>> "emotion" - concepts that are not emic concepts).
> >>>
> >>> Among the western institutions that the Himba lack, the Himba lack
> >>> the Western model of schooling (one of my students is doing
> >>> research on
> this
> >>> very issue). It is only in the last 15 years or so that Himba have
> begun
> >>> sending their children to school, and now only in small numbers.
> >>> The Himba are very skeptical of schools since, in their opinion,
> >>> the schools
> don't
> >>> teach their children anything worthwhile. Knowing how to count is
> >>> unimportant to them since although they are non-numerate they are
> >>> able to keep track of large herds of cattle because they know each
> >>> of their cattle individually and can recognize when one is
> >>> missing. But what really matters are things like knowing how to
> >>> properly honor one's ancestors. If one fails to do that properly,
> >>> then then ancestors will cause bad things to
> happen
> >>> to
> >>> oneself. That is much more important than knowing how to count.
> >>>
> >>> Carol, I also agree with your concerns with the methodology of the
> >>> study, it may not be reasonable to assume that this research is
> >>> the same as
> the
> >>> Ekman tasks and of-course it is a Western-type task (but one might
> argue
> >>> that it is less so than the Ekman tasks since it is more open,
> >>> arguable).
> >>>
> >>> So Carol, I wonder what conclusions you would draw from your critique.
> >>> Are
> >>> emotions universal?
> >>> I wonder if there is a further possibility that these
> >>> psychologists are missing. Is it possible that "emotions" are not
> >>> universal in quite a different sense? Perhaps that the very
> >>> category of "emotion" is not universal?
> >>>
> >>> I think this research points in that direction - when viewing a
> >>> picture of a face, people do not necessarily assume that the
> >>> person in the picture is "emoting". I assume that this would be
> >>> true among Westerners as well, but that possibility doesn't
> >>> present itself in the research methodology since Westerners are
> >>> asked "what emotion is this?" The task is already
> defined
> >>> by
> >>> the domain called "emotion" (with which they are already very
> familiar).
> >>>
> >>> Anthropologists have done great work to show the problems with
> >>> taking Western defined domains into non-Western contexts (e.g. the
> >>> domain of "kinship" - David Schneider, the domain of "color" -
> >>> John Lucy). The argument is that even though this research turns
> >>> up results that seem
> to
> >>> suggest that the domains are real even in non-Western contexts,
> >>> the findings are plagued by the fact that they assume these
> >>> domains and force these non-Western subjects into choosing within
> >>> the pre-defined domain.
> >>>
> >>> But then again, perhaps "emotion" is a universal category?
> >>> -greg
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Carol Macdonald
> >>> <carolmacdon@gmail.com
> >>>
> >>>> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>> Well Mike
> >>>>
> >>>> I am here working in Namibia for the year, and I would like to
> >>>> know where these Himba people are.  I mean the ones referred to
> >>>> in the article: I am not sure they are *so *isolated - they are
> >>>> well recognised as one of the language groups.  And I think there
> >>>> is also an elephant in the room here.
> >>>> This is a western-type task, and Luria would have been quick to
> >>>> point
> >>>>
> >>> that
> >>>
> >>>> out. What makes this woman think that this task would be the
> equivalent
> >>>>
> >>> to
> >>>
> >>>> the others.
> >>>>
> >>>> Just a couple of basic principles to cast a small aspersion on
> >>>> this research.
> >>>>
> >>>> Carol
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On 4 May 2014 14:16, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> Perhaps of interest
> >>>>> mike
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>
> http://www.psypost.org/2014/03/the-six-universal-facial-expressions-ar
> e-not-universal-cross-cultural-study-shows-23471
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> >>>> Developmental psycholinguist
> >>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor Honorary Research Fellow:
> >>>> Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> >>> Assistant Professor
> >>> Department of Anthropology
> >>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> >>> Brigham Young University
> >>> Provo, UT 84602
> >>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
>
>
> --
> Dr. Elinami Swai
> Senior Lecturer
> Associate Dean
> Coordinator, Postgraduate Studies
> Faculty of Education
> Open University of Tanzania
> P.O.Box 23409
> Dar-Es-Salaam
> Tell:255-022-2668992/2668820/2668445/26687455
>  Fax:022-2668759
> Cell: (255) 076-722-8353; (255) 068-722-8353
> http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Womens-Empowerment-Africa-Dislocation/dp/
> 0230102484
>         ...this faith will still deliver
>         If you live it first to last
>         Not everything which blooms must
>         wither.
>         Not all that was is past
>

--
Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
Developmental psycholinguist
Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa

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