[Xmca-l] Re: Questioning universal core emotions

Tue May 6 15:15:32 PDT 2014

and speaking to my previous point about problems with methods for studying
this kind of thing, consider the following from the Psy Science piece that
Mike forwarded:

"Himba participants appeared to have a cultural tendency to describe
vocalizations in behavioral terms initially; that is, on most trials, they
first identified the action instead of making a mental-state inference….
For example, instead of describing a vocalization as fearful, they often
used a term that translates to 'scream.'" (p. 913).

Woohoo!

-greg

On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 3:03 PM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hi Ed.
>
> I started the trouble here by posting the following story which purported
> to report on the work of Lisa Barrett.
>
>
> http://www.psypost.org/2014/03/the-six-universal-facial-expressions-are-not-universal-cross-cultural-study-shows-23471
>
> That post started a discussion that began with methodology and appears to
> have morphed into personal views of the matter.
>
> I promised in the original post to find the article referred to in the
> story, but got caught up in other matters and let it go. I should have done
> so BEFORE I posted the story, which was, in my view now, misleading with
> respect, at least, to this published paper. The paper in Emotion has not
> appeared so far as I can tell.
>
> Back to methodology?
> mike
>
>
>
> On Tue, May 6, 2014 at 1:19 PM, Ed Wall <ewall@umich.edu> wrote:
>
> > Perhaps of interest is Amelie Rorty's edited volume Explaining Emotions.
> > In any case, emotion is a large category as is expression.
> >
> > In any case, I admit to some confusion. Is the ongoing conversation about
> > 'expressing' emotion or about 'feellng' or, perhaps, 'experiencing'
> emotion.
> >
> > Ed Wall
> >
> > On May 6, 2014, at  2:28 PM, Elinami Swai wrote:
> >
> > > I believe that pain, just like feeling is universal. But I also
> > > believe that emotion (which we can also call expression) is learned
> > > and thus may differ from one individual to another. We make
> > > interpretations of emotion and expression from our own points of view.
> > >
> > >
> > > On 5/6/14, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> > >> David, although I am sure that sensations cannot be taken as universal
> > >> either, since it is unlikely that there is anything remaining after
> the
> > >> interprettion of the "sensation" is abstracted. However, it is
> > >> nonetheless a different claim to say that human sensation is not
> > >> universal, as to say human emotion (by which is meant I think
> "feeling")
> > >> is not universal. Let's suppose all are experiencing pain: they are
> all
> > >> clearly feeling different about it.
> > >>
> > >> Or was that your point?
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> David Kellogg wrote:
> > >>> Suppose I put together a set of pictures of people undergoing
> torture,
> > in
> > >>> which some people appeared to be experiencing the torture stoically,
> > >>> others
> > >>> with resignation, still others with agony, and some with something
> that
> > >>> appears to be laughter.
> > >>>
> > >>> I think I could probably crop the photographs and pose questions in
> > such
> > >>> a
> > >>> way that I could very convincingly demonstrate that pain is not a
> > >>> universal
> > >>> human sensation. Not only that, I could probably put together a
> sorting
> > >>> exercise that would come to the same conclusion.
> > >>>
> > >>> David Kellogg
> > >>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>> On 5 May 2014 01:24, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>> I have a colleague down the hall, David Crandall, that has been
> > working
> > >>>> among the Himba for almost 30 years. I also have three students
> headed
> > >>>> to
> > >>>> do research among the Himba in a month. So I've been picking up some
> > >>>> interesting details about the Himba.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> It seems like it is true that they have increasingly had contact
> with
> > >>>> Western culture, as evidenced by recent protests in some of the
> larger
> > >>>> cities that were staged by Himba opposed to the building of a dam
> that
> > >>>> would cause flooding of some of the burial sites of their ancestors
> (
> > >>>> http://www.huntingtonnews.net/84854).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> At the same time, they are non-numerate people that lack some of the
> > key
> > >>>> Western institutions where kids learn (oddly enough) about
> "emotions"
> > >>>> (think of those pictures of happy and sad faces that Western
> schooling
> > >>>> takes into the classroom as the MEANS by which they teach literacy -
> > >>>> these
> > >>>> means of teaching literacy always entail certain cultural ends -
> such
> > as
> > >>>> "emotion" - concepts that are not emic concepts).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Among the western institutions that the Himba lack, the Himba lack
> the
> > >>>> Western model of schooling (one of my students is doing research on
> > this
> > >>>> very issue). It is only in the last 15 years or so that Himba have
> > begun
> > >>>> sending their children to school, and now only in small numbers. The
> > >>>> Himba
> > >>>> are very skeptical of schools since, in their opinion, the schools
> > don't
> > >>>> teach their children anything worthwhile. Knowing how to count is
> > >>>> unimportant to them since although they are non-numerate they are
> able
> > >>>> to
> > >>>> keep track of large herds of cattle because they know each of their
> > >>>> cattle
> > >>>> individually and can recognize when one is missing. But what really
> > >>>> matters
> > >>>> are things like knowing how to properly honor one's ancestors. If
> one
> > >>>> fails
> > >>>> to do that properly, then then ancestors will cause bad things to
> > happen
> > >>>> to
> > >>>> oneself. That is much more important than knowing how to count.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Carol, I also agree with your concerns with the methodology of the
> > >>>> study,
> > >>>> it may not be reasonable to assume that this research is the same as
> > the
> > >>>> Ekman tasks and of-course it is a Western-type task (but one might
> > argue
> > >>>> that it is less so than the Ekman tasks since it is more open,
> > >>>> arguable).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> So Carol, I wonder what conclusions you would draw from your
> critique.
> > >>>> Are
> > >>>> emotions universal?
> > >>>> I wonder if there is a further possibility that these psychologists
> > are
> > >>>> missing. Is it possible that "emotions" are not universal in quite a
> > >>>> different sense? Perhaps that the very category of "emotion" is not
> > >>>> universal?
> > >>>>
> > >>>> I think this research points in that direction - when viewing a
> > picture
> > >>>> of
> > >>>> a face, people do not necessarily assume that the person in the
> > picture
> > >>>> is
> > >>>> "emoting". I assume that this would be true among Westerners as
> well,
> > >>>> but
> > >>>> that possibility doesn't present itself in the research methodology
> > >>>> since
> > >>>> Westerners are asked "what emotion is this?" The task is already
> > defined
> > >>>> by
> > >>>> the domain called "emotion" (with which they are already very
> > familiar).
> > >>>>
> > >>>> Anthropologists have done great work to show the problems with
> taking
> > >>>> Western defined domains into non-Western contexts (e.g. the domain
> of
> > >>>> "kinship" - David Schneider, the domain of "color" - John Lucy). The
> > >>>> argument is that even though this research turns up results that
> seem
> > to
> > >>>> suggest that the domains are real even in non-Western contexts, the
> > >>>> findings are plagued by the fact that they assume these domains and
> > >>>> force
> > >>>> these non-Western subjects into choosing within the pre-defined
> > domain.
> > >>>>
> > >>>> But then again, perhaps "emotion" is a universal category?
> > >>>> -greg
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> On Sun, May 4, 2014 at 7:55 AM, Carol Macdonald <
> > carolmacdon@gmail.com
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Well Mike
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> I am here working in Namibia for the year, and I would like to know
> > >>>>> where
> > >>>>> these Himba people are.  I mean the ones referred to in the
> article:
> > I
> > >>>>> am
> > >>>>> not sure they are *so *isolated - they are well recognised as one
> of
> > >>>>> the
> > >>>>> language groups.  And I think there is also an elephant in the room
> > >>>>> here.
> > >>>>> This is a western-type task, and Luria would have been quick to
> point
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> that
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> out. What makes this woman think that this task would be the
> > equivalent
> > >>>>>
> > >>>> to
> > >>>>
> > >>>>> the others.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Just a couple of basic principles to cast a small aspersion on this
> > >>>>> research.
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> Carol
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> On 4 May 2014 14:16, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>> Perhaps of interest
> > >>>>>> mike
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>>>
> > >>>>
> >
> http://www.psypost.org/2014/03/the-six-universal-facial-expressions-are-not-universal-cross-cultural-study-shows-23471
> > >>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>> --
> > >>>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
> > >>>>> Developmental psycholinguist
> > >>>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
> > >>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>> --
> > >>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> > >>>> Assistant Professor
> > >>>> Department of Anthropology
> > >>>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> > >>>> Brigham Young University
> > >>>> Provo, UT 84602
> > >>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
> > >>>>
> > >>>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> > >
> > > --
> > > Dr. Elinami Swai
> > > Senior Lecturer
> > > Associate Dean
> > > Coordinator, Postgraduate Studies
> > > Faculty of Education
> > > Open University of Tanzania
> > > P.O.Box 23409
> > > Dar-Es-Salaam
> > > Tell:255-022-2668992/2668820/2668445/26687455
> > > Fax:022-2668759
> > > Cell: (255) 076-722-8353; (255) 068-722-8353
> > > http://www.amazon.com/Beyond-Womens-Empowerment-Africa-Dislocation/dp/
> > > 0230102484
> > >        ...this faith will still deliver
> > >        If you live it first to last
> > >        Not everything which blooms must
> > >        wither.
> > >        Not all that was is past
> >
> >
> >
>

-- 
Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
Assistant Professor
Department of Anthropology
883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
Brigham Young University
Provo, UT 84602
http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson