[Xmca-l] Re: Playing with/at TED

[Lois Holzman]

Thanks, Tom. (I tried.)
And I didn't realize I forgot the link.
All best,
Lois

Lois Holzman
Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
104-106 South Oxford Street
Brooklyn, New York 11217
Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
Fax +1.718.797.3966
lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org 
Social Media
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Blogs
Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
Websites
Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
All Stars Project

 

On Jun 23, 2014, at 11:19 AM, Tom Richardson <tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:

> Thank you, Lois, for finding time for this thoughtful reply to the threads
> around your TED piece -a link to your 'What's developing is below:
> http://vimeo.com/98797556
> Tom
> 
> 
> On 23 June 2014 16:01, Lois Holzman <lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote:
> 
>> Thanks to all who've watched the video and commented.
>> Over the weekend I completed two weeks of PLAYING WITH a "small group" of
>> psychologists/youth workers/educators from 5 countries who were in NYC for
>> their final residency period with me and the Institute. I kept up with your
>> posts but wasn't able to respond until now.
>> I find the discussion fascinating in a few ways, which I will try to
>> describe through commenting on what's been said/written.
>> 
>> I greatly appreciated Tom's concern ("We need Play to evolve the next
>> tranche of revolutionary strategy and
>>> tactics, but Play alone will never arrive at the necessity for
>>> revolutionary overthrow of capitalism") and further comment and
>> subsequent expansion on this ("While I did not wish to attack or offend
>> deliberately, I feel that the
>> limitations of work within individual/small group relationships, no matter
>> how creative, redemptive and transformative, cannot have that same effect
>> upon the 500year-developed /developing reality which is modern bourgeois
>> society. It is that sense of limitation which I attempted,
>>> straightforwardly to convey").
>> 
>>> Tom, I in no way felt attacked or offended.
>> 
>>> I found Shirley and Helen's and Carol's versions of what I was doing in
>> the talk and what the activities I presented might be "about" very helpful
>> and appreciated learning what they saw.  I was indeed trying to present
>> something new to the audience, something that gave them the feeling that
>> there was more "behind it" and that something was pretty unorthodox.
>> 
>>> I suppose the key thing I can say in response is that I was speaking
>> about play in a very particular way, as revolutionary. I was really pleased
>> that the audience for the live presentation picked up on that and was
>> excited by this new way of seeing. What I think revolutionary play is (in
>> my talk I repeated what I mean by that several times—taking what there is
>> and making something new, doing what we do not know how to do, relating as
>> who we are/other than who we are at the same time) is a cultural-historical
>> activity that creates development, and that all of us human beings need to
>> develop if we are to have a shot at overthrowing capitalism. (For "theory"
>> the most concise expansion of this might be All Power to the Developing.The
>> position put forth in that article has generated lively dialogue, as it is
>> not the most popular among Marxists.)
>> 
>>> As I read some of the comments on my talk, it seems to me that how I
>> understand play as revolutionary was not taken into account fully. By that
>> I mean it seems like one's own understanding of play was substituted
>> unaware. Perhaps this has something to do with Hue seeing play as
>> "overdone" as well as David's commenting:
>>> "One of the problems of Lois's talk is that it doesn't give us a very
>> clear
>> view of what play is not. But I would say that street kids talking to
>> policemen about their fear of being gunned down in the street is a pretty
>> good place to start. Lois herself recognizes in her talk that the
>> conversations are not part of
>> the play. But then we need to look at when and where the activity stopped
>> being play, and above all why. Otherwise we rob "play" of all of its
>> content."
>> 
>> Sorry, David, if I was less than clear here. For me, the conversation was
>> part of the play. The activity never stopped being play, as I understand
>> it. The cops and kids were playing, in my sense of revolutionary play, as
>> they were creating a conversation they had never had and perhaps could not
>> were they not playing/performing...they were doing what was beyond them and
>> creating something new together. I imagine you and others may not see it
>> that way, but that's what I see.
>> 
>> David's comments also highlight for me an aspect of perhaps different ways
>> of approaching what it means to engage in the activity of understanding. As
>> I read you, you need me to say what play is not and you also need me to
>> pinpoint the beginnings and endings of something identified as play. It's
>> that "is" that for me is the problematic term—it reads to me as pictorial
>> and essentializing in reference to meaning. Apologies if I have
>> misunderstood you. And while I don't mind playing being simultaneously the
>> "leading activity" and the constant activity, I'm inspired by Vygotsky, not
>> overdetermined by him.
>> 
>> I'm very sensitive to how we speak/write to each other, however,
>> especially when difference of opinion gets in the way or replaces curiosity
>> to learn more about how come someone thinks/believes what they apparently
>> do. And so I wish that we would be asking more questions of each other...
>> and perhaps saying things in less absolutist and knowing terms.
>> 
>> David (again) wrote:
>> PS: Obviously, the teacher who claimed that their generation in China (my
>> wife's generation) did not play after the age of two was just playing
>> around with poor Lois. But that's no reason to play along...
>> 
>> I "obviously" (and here it makes sense to use that word) cannot know your
>> intention in writing what and how you wrote the above, as we cannot know
>> each other's intentions. So I'll jump off from what you say and maybe help
>> you see what I was trying to convey—75 teachers (not 1) told us in
>> different ways/phrases that they hadn't played since they were very little
>> children. They weren't making any claims, neither for themselves as
>> individuals and certainly not for their generation. They were talking with
>> us and sharing their experiences. I assume your wife has done the same with
>> you, and that would be interesting to learn about.
>> 
>> I'm off tonight to work in Frankfurt for the week, but if there is further
>> conversation I will respond quickly.
>> 
>> If any of you are interested in pursuing the topic of play and performance
>> in our current context of capitalism's crisis, from my community's
>> perspective, you can view an event, What Developing in a World in Crisis
>> which begins with 9 people from 8 countries speaking to how they see the
>> development challenges in their countries, followed by a conversation
>> between me and a colleague, and then the audience.
>> 
>> Again, thanks for including me, TED, play in your discussions,
>> Lois
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Lois Holzman
>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>> Social Media
>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>> Blogs
>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>> Websites
>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>> All Stars Project
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On Jun 22, 2014, at 1:31 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> I wonder what Lois thinks about all of this discussion that Peter
>> started?
>>> Mike
>>> 
>>> On Friday, June 20, 2014, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> I agree completely with Tom's remarks. I remember that almost every
>> summer
>>> in Chicago between five and ten black children in the city would be
>>> murdered by police for playing with toy guns. Consider this:
>>> 
>>> 
>> http://www.mintpressnews.com/us-police-murdered-5000-innocent-civilians-since-911/172029/
>>> 
>>> To link this to the previous thread--I don't think that the article "What
>>> Theory is Not" has a workable definition of theory, and for that reason I
>>> found it little more than a list of complaints. But part of the
>> dialectical
>>> method is defining what things are by looking at what things are
>>> not: transgressing that boundary is precisely what we mean when we say
>> that
>>> something is in the process of becoming what it is not.
>>> 
>>> One of the problems of Lois's talk is that it doesn't give us a very
>> clear
>>> view of what play is not. But I would say that street kids talking to
>>> policemen about their fear of being gunned down in the street is a pretty
>>> good place to start.
>>> 
>>> Lois herself recognizes in her talk that the conversations are not part
>> of
>>> the play. But then we need to look at when and where the activity stopped
>>> being play, and above all why. Otherwise we rob "play" of all of its
>>> content.
>>> 
>>> I think the same thing is true when we say that children play constantly,
>>> from the moment they wake up to the moment they go to bed (and Vygotsky,
>> of
>>> course, says the opposite--play is a "leading" activity but for that very
>>> reason we cannot say it is the main activity).
>>> 
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>> 
>>> PS: Obviously, the teacher who claimed that their generation in China (my
>>> wife's generation) did not play after the age of two was just playing
>>> around with poor Lois. But that's no reason to play along...
>>> 
>>> dk
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 20 June 2014 06:03, Tom Richardson <tom.richardson3@googlemail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> A fascinating and moving 14+minutes of Lois ....only how I wish that I
>> did
>>>> not subscribe to a class analysis which means that the last example of
>> the
>>>> 'kids of colour' and the NYPD is called into deep question - will the
>>>> lethal divides of capitalism's "special bodies of armed men" from
>>>> working-class citizens, (and of course it extends to imperialism's
>>>> destruction of whole countries), be 'overcome' by Play. Lois'
>> commitment
>>>> and passionate intelligence almost lets me believe it might, but I know
>>>> that I'm fooling myself.
>>>> We need Play to evolve the next tranche of revolutionary strategy and
>>>> tactics, but Play alone will never arrive at the necessity for
>>>> revolutionary overthrow of capitalism, only, from Lois' examples,
>>>> ultimately futile attempts at transcending class conflict,
>>>> 
>>>> Tom Richardson
>>>> Middlesbrough
>>>> UK
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On 19 June 2014 20:57, Carol Macdonald <carolmacdon@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Well Lois
>>>>> 
>>>>> That was splendid, awesome! All you serious XMCAers please watch.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Carol
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On 19 June 2014 13:48, Lois Holzman <lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Here's the link, Carol.
>>>>>> http://tedxnavesink.com/project/lois-holzman/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Lois Holzman
>>>>>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
>>>>>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>>>>>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>>>>>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>>>>>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>>>>>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>>>>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>>>>>> Social Media
>>>>>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>>>>>> Blogs
>>>>>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>>>>>> Websites
>>>>>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>>>>>> All Stars Project
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Jun 19, 2014, at 3:02 AM, Carol Macdonald <
>> carolmacdon@gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Louis
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Please could you send the link again?
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Thanks
>>>>>>> Carol
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On 19 June 2014 01:03, Lois Holzman <
>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>>>> Peter kindly posted a link to a talk I gave last month at a TEDx
>>>>>>>> event--TEDxNavesink Play.
>>>>>>>> Aside from the prep being among the hardest things I've ever
>> done
>>>>>> (staying
>>>>>>>> within their rules and structure, not being academic but saying
>>>>>> something
>>>>>>>> new for people to think about, and more), it was a delight to be
>>>> with
>>>>>> folks
>>>>>>>> who appreciate and value play--many of whom are affording
>> people in
>>>>>> their
>>>>>>>> communities with the opportunity to play in all kinds of ways.
>> It
>>>> was
>>>>>>>> really growthful for me and my team. I was really pleased to
>>>> reconnect
>>>>>> with
>>>>>>>> Peter Gray after many years and to meet other good people. The
>>>> one-day
>>>>>>>> event was organized are 4 P's--possibility, pleasure, progress
>> and
>>>>>> paradox.
>>>>>>>> I invite you all to include these talks within your conversation
>>>>>> here--even
>>>>>>>> though they're not theoretical. Maybe it's a new kind of play
>> for
>>>>> many.
>>>>>>>> Lois
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> Lois Holzman
>>>>>>>> Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term
>> Psychotherapy
>>>>>>>> 104-106 South Oxford Street
>>>>>>>> Brooklyn, New York 11217
>>>>>>>> Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>>>>>>>> Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>>>>>>>> Fax +1.718.797.3966
>>>>>>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>>>>>>>> Social Media
>>>>>>>> Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>>>>>>>> Blogs
>>>>>>>> Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>>>>>>>> Websites
>>>>>>>> Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>>>>>>>> All Stars Project
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist
>>>>>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
>>>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> --
>>>>> Carol A  Macdonald Ph D (Edin)
>>>>> Developmental psycholinguist
>>>>> Academic, Researcher,  and Editor
>>>>> Honorary Research Fellow: Department of Linguistics, Unisa
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>> 
>>