[Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development

Fri Jul 4 03:04:51 PDT 2014

Hi Greg, you might like to take a look at a picture-induced example in http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/10749039.2014.913294 from p. 9., or I could share with you some more examples later on regarding the word-image complementarity, some of which are aporia-related (since I'm currently preparing this manuscript for Harvard Educational Research).

James 
________________________________________
From: xmca-l-bounces+james.ma=canterbury.ac.uk@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces+james.ma=canterbury.ac.uk@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of greg.a.thompson@gmail.com <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>
Sent: 03 July 2014 23:04
To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development

James,
might you be able to ascend to the concrete for a moment and give an example of what you mean when you say that word and image "work to absorb each other" and thus create an aporia?
All sounds very interesting but it is difficult to tell if we are abstracting these words in quite the same way. An example might help us calibrate our abstractions.
Greg

Sent from my iPhone

> On Jul 3, 2014, at 3:46 AM, "Ma, James (james.ma@canterbury.ac.uk)" <james.ma@canterbury.ac.uk> wrote:
>
> Mike, I’d like to resonate with your last point.
>
> For me, the spiral of development is an end in itself, at least viewed in the grand vision of Hegelian metaphysics. Currently I’m writing a manuscript on the word-image complementarity (as a sequel to my recent article in MCA). What’s fascinating to me is that both word and image are elusive as well as subjective, which opens up an immense scope for abductive semiotic thinking.  The approach to word concepts seems to be linear, whereas the approach to visual images takes the form of circumnavigation, spiralling outward from the centre to the periphery and simultaneously inward from the periphery to the centre. What’s more, when word and image work to absorb each other, they’re both outside themselves, so to speak. This creates a profound aporia, a term used in philosophy of language. Say, when a visual image is absorbed by a word concept, we’re confronted with the inadequacy of figurative language to coincide with the world it may wish to delineate.
>
> Such word-image complementarity and dissonance can be all the more captivating should it be examined through the prism of Peirce-Vygotsky synergy (http://dx.doi.org/10.1080/10749039.2014.913294).
>
> Best wishes, James
>
> ________________________________________
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu> on behalf of mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com>
> Sent: 03 July 2014 03:59
> To: Tom Richardson
> Cc: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development
>
> Oh! Sometimes I just love this list/community. What a great range of
> answers.
> Kyle nailed just the passage that I was thinking of but could not locate.
> David
> linked the question to the idea/real being the environment that allows the
> end to be in the beginning, Tom notes the link back to Hegel.
>
> Whoa, what a tasty repast. Thank you all.
>
> Here is something interesting to me-- No one mentioned the linkage of these
> ideas to the spiral of development. I am sensitive to this point because
> when the new LCHC generation brought the webpage out of the 1990's, none of
> those who rescued it from decrepitude knew what the spiral of development
> on the home page meant..... except that it was difficult to navigate along
> it (having to read upside down and all that). It remains, as a pale
> imitation of itself. Although it, too , can be found in Eliot!
>
> Which brings us to affinities between the judeo-christian tradition and
> marxism!
>
> Anyway, thanks on all accounts.
> mike
>
>
> On Wed, Jul 2, 2014 at 1:54 PM, Tom Richardson <
> tom.richardson3@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>> "situation in phylogenetic development where the
>> end-point of development is co-present with its beginning..." reminds me
>> of an Hegelian formulation,conceptualisation, (but standing on its own
>> feet?)
>> Tom
>>
>>
>>> On 2 July 2014 21:42, David Kellogg <dkellogg60@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>> Mike:
>>>
>>> My favorite is on pp. 347-349 of the Vygotsky Reader, "The Problem of the
>>> Environment". It's too long to quote here, so I summarize.
>>>
>>> Vygotsky is making the point that unlike phylogenetic
>>> development, ontogenetic development is teleological. He  asks his
>>> students
>>> if they can imagine a situation in phylogenetic development where the
>>> end-point of development is co-present with its beginning and is actually
>>> capable of guiding its steps.
>>>
>>> (Since even the unimaginable has to be somehow come to mind, Vygotsky
>>> probably has in mind, probably, the USSR, where the most advanced form of
>>> social organization is co-present with hunter-gatherer societies in the
>>> North, pastoral societies in Central Asia, and subsistence agriculture in
>>> the Caucasus. When I try to do this, I somehow see flying saucers landing
>>> at Stonehenge!)
>>>
>>> He concludes that no such situation is imaginable. But then--he points out
>>> that the mere fact that something is unimaginable does nothing to prevent
>>> it from actually happening, because precisely this situation obtains with
>>> speech--that is, the "ideal, complete" form is present alongside the most
>>> basic forms and help to guide their first stumbling steps.
>>>
>>> As T.S. Eliot says:
>>>
>>> In my beginning is my end. In succession
>>> Houses rise and fall, crumble, are extended
>>> Are removed, destroyed, restored or in their place
>>> Is an open field, or a factory, or a by-pass (East Coker)
>>>
>>> David Kellogg
>>> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 3 July 2014 03:41, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I am seeking to find a quotation from Vygotsky where he asserts that the
>>>> development of language offers a general model for human development
>>> more
>>>> generally. My fantasy, or can someone help me find it?
>>>> mike
>