[Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development

[Andy Blunden]

Maybe, but Alfredo has been working with W-M Roth, and in a recent paper 
Roth claims to quote Vygotsky saying that experience is "the dynamic 
unit of affective and intellectual processes" (Roth's translation) and 
goes on to make it clear that this was not a slip of the pen, but he 
means "unit".
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.pacific.net.au/~andy/


mike cole wrote:
> That is how I interpreted Alfredo, Andy.
> (signed)
>
> an /in/-experienced oldtimer
> mike
>
>
> On Thu, Jul 3, 2014 at 6:45 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net 
> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
>
>     I am familiar with Dewey's work on this, Alfredo, and I too have
>     found it
>     very useful. That was not my problem. But thinking about it, I
>     suspect it
>     was just an English expression problem.
>     You said "experience is a unit of doing and undergoing". But I
>     think you
>     meant to say "experience is a unity of doing and undergoing," which is
>     certainly true. Just as activity is a unity of consciousness and
>     behaviour, or identity is a unity of recognition and
>     self-consciousness,
>     etc.
>     But a *unit* is something different from *unity*. "Experience" in this
>     sense is not a unit at all; "an experience" can be a unit, but not
>     a unit
>     of doing and undergoing.
>
>     Is that right, Alfredo?
>     Andy
>
>     > Dewey, most extensively in chapter 3 of "Art as experience", makes a
>     > distinction between the general stream of experience, and an
>     experience,
>     > which, according to him, is the experience that "is a whole and
>     carries
>     > with it its own individualizing quality and self-sufficiency".
>     After the
>     > fact, an experience "has a unity that gives it its name, that
>     meal, that
>     > storm, that rupture of friendship", Dewey writes. He further
>     says that,
>     > within that unity, there is both an aspect of doing, of
>     initiation, and
>     > another of undergoing, "of suffering in its large sense". He further
>     > articulates the relation between the doing and the undergoing in
>     terms of
>     > "anticipation" and "consummation" "Anticipation" he writes "is the
>     > connecting link between the next doing and its outcome for
>     sense. What is
>     > done and what is undergone are thus reciprocally, cumulatively, and
>     > continuously instrumental to each other"
>     >
>     > Although in most passages these notes have a rather
>     individualistic taste,
>     > he goes on to clarify that there is a prominent public character in
>     > experience: "without external embodiment, an experience remains
>     > incomplete" he says. In the same chapter, he also argues that
>     "it is not
>     > possible to divide in a vital experience the practical,
>     emotional, and
>     > intellectual from one another." Both these conditions may make
>     it possible
>     > to draw connections between Dewey's notion of experience and
>     Vygotsky's
>     > perezivanie.
>     >
>     > In any case, I find interesting the dialectic Dewey proposes
>     between doing
>     > and undergoing as aspects of a minimal unit of sense-full experience
>     > because it allows for thinking of being immersed in a developmental
>     > situation in which the final form already exists before the
>     intellect
>     > grasps it, so that we do not need to put individual knowledge
>     > constructions as who puts the cart before the horse.
>     >
>     > But this is my reading, which may have obviated other aspects
>     that would
>     > preclude this reading?
>     > Hope this was of help.
>     > Best,
>     >
>     > Alfredo
>     > ________________________________________
>     > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>     <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
>     <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>> on
>     > behalf of Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
>     <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>>
>     > Sent: 03 July 2014 17:17
>     > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
>     > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: LSV on language as a model of development
>     >
>     > Alfredo, what did you mean by:
>     >> ... as he argued, experience is a unit of doing and undergoing,
>     >
>     > Andy
>     >
>     >
>     >
>
>
>