[Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
Andy Blunden
ablunden@mira.net
Tue Jan 21 18:33:46 PST 2014
I don't know how you claim to be an optimist, Paul. For my part, I am
deeply hostile to Althusser's entire project. Structuralism is itself
the paradigm of the ideology of modern capitalism. I am a humanist. "Who
will take that self-conscious act?" you ask. Obviously the answer is
that the agent will be a collaborative project, itself the product of
many collaborative projects, and yes, organic intellectuals have a role
to play it that project. But "a gramscian organic intellectual" is not a
serious answer, as if it were a case of one person. But "The majority"
(or intellectuals I presume you mean) is an empirical abstraction. So
what? Who is counting? As if intellectual act as a unity according to
majority votes of all intellectuals? Abstractions!
Andy
------------------------------------------------------------------------
*Andy Blunden*
http://home.mira.net/~andy/
Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote:
> But your position, andy, begs the question who will take that
> self-conscious act...a gramscian organic intellectual? Where are
> they? They are not in africa for instance...evo morales in latin
> america? I am with althusser on this one. The majority have been
> interpellated by and through ideological apparatuses that present
> capitalism as the nature of reality as such. The masses think they
> can all be and live like Mike (michael jordan), the atlanta
> housewives, and basketball wives. They love capitalism more than the
> capitalists....
>
>
> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> President
> The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> www.mocombeian.com
> www.readingroomcurriculum.com
>
>
>
> -------- Original message --------
> From: Andy Blunden
> Date:01/21/2014 9:00 PM (GMT-05:00)
> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
>
> Which brings us back to what on Earth is meant by "mind," Paul, but no,
> it is not my understanding at all that capitalism exists irrespective of
> the armed bodies of men and their political off-shoots which protect
> those relations. Unlike you though, Paul, I do not ascribe a personality
> to "the Earth," or "humanity," "the poor," or "us academics." What I am
> saying however is that the overthrow of capitalist social relations and
> thus the state which protects it, is a self-conscious act, a
> collaborative project, not something which emerges mindlessly out of the
> social process.
>
> Andy
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> *Andy Blunden*
> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>
>
> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote:
> > Bill,
> >
> > You speak of capitalism as though it has a mind of its own, I.e., the
> > free market. No such thing as Karl polanyi demonstrates in "the
> > great transformation...The state has kept capitalism alive and going
> > amidst it's crises. The question becomes can we have a humanist
> > capitalism somewhere between adam smith's "theory of moral sentiments"
> > and his "wealth of nations." Revisionist Marxists such as Bernstein
> > grappled with this question, and it continues to plague twenty first
> > century socialists.
> >
> >
> > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> > President
> > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> > www.mocombeian.com
> > www.readingroomcurriculum.com
> >
> >
> > -------- Original message --------
> > From: Bill Kerr
> > Date:01/21/2014 8:15 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > To: Andy Blunden ,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam International
> >
> > My contention is that capitalism has these economic characteristics:
> >
> > 1) General increase in standard of living
> > 2) Increasing gap b/w rich and poor
> > 3) Instability: periodic economic crises
> >
> > If you only talk about (2) without mentioning (1) then it is hard to
> grasp
> > why people put up with capitalism. Bill and Melinda Gates just talk
> about
> > (1) and ignore the other aspects. See
> >
> http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304149404579324530112590864
> >
> > If you can't stomach Bill and Melinda there are other version of this
> > narrative. This video (Hans Rosling, GapMinder) is interesting:
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo
> >
> > The historical record suggests to me that provided (1) is maintained
> then
> > people will continue to tolerate capitalism. Whether capitalism can
> > maintain (1) depends on (3). The crisis of 2008 and the Occupy Wall
> Street
> > movement suggested to me that it was time to do some serious study of
> > Marx's unfinished project or alternatively other economic theories
> such as
> > Post Keynesian (Hyman Minsky, Steve Keen et al) which recognise the
> > inherent instability of capitalism. My tentative conclusion is that we
> > just
> > don't understand capitalism and it is very hard to understand. eg. if
> > capitalists can muddle through the downturns by printing more money
> > and the
> > very serious economic downturns can be delayed by 70 years (Great
> > Depression to 2008) then that might be a formula for survival (?) Absurd
> > simplification on my part.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Jan 22, 2014 at 11:16 AM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
> wrote:
> >
> > > Which means, does it not Huw, propagating a counter-ethic, so to
> speak,
> > > since arguments against an ethic are just words, and the maxim is
> always
> > > "do as I do not as I say." But an ethic is meaningful, I believe only
> > > within some collaborative endeavour. My relationship to you is
> > meaningful
> > > only in connection of what we do, as we, together. I believe that
> > "Do unto
> > > others as you would have them do unto you," is fine as far as it
> > goes, but
> > > is inadequate to this mtulicultural, fragmented world.
> > >
> > > Andy
> > >
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
> > > *Andy Blunden*
> > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >
> > >
> > > Huw Lloyd wrote:
> > >
> > >> Going back to reference to the bubble and social psychology, it
> > seems to
> > >> me that the "super rich" are to be pitied too. I am not sure
> > living in a
> > >> bubble is such a nice thing, especially given the immaturity
> > required to
> > >> sustain it.
> > >>
> > >> I don't think it is the super rich which are to be combatted,
> rather it
> > >> is the inane notion that this is something to be admired or
> > desired. This,
> > >> it seems to me, is a more obtainable and more rewarding exercise.
> > >>
> > >> Best,
> > >> Huw
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 22 January 2014 00:07, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:
> > >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> But your foundation is active in combatting inequality through
> > >> literacy. "Every step of real movement is more important than a
> > >> dozen programmes," as one very serious theorist said.
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > http://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1875/letters/75_05_05.htm
> > >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ------------
> > >> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe wrote:
> > >>
> > >> At 38 I am differing to my elders on this one...albeit, I
> > >> agree with Andy...too young to be pessimistic, but what I
> have
> > >> seen happen to black america has really disappointed me.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> > >> President
> > >> The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> > >> www.mocombeian.com <http://www.mocombeian.com>
> > >> www.readingroomcurriculum.com
> > >> <http://www.readingroomcurriculum.com>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -------- Original message --------
> > >> From: Andy Blunden
> > >> Date:01/21/2014 6:36 PM (GMT-05:00)
> > >> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> > >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> International
> > >>
> > >> David, you are quite correct that agreement on
> fundamentals of
> > >> theory is
> > >> by no means necessary for collaboration (though on the xmca
> > >> list this is
> > >> feasible). In a sense, the very meaning of "collaboration" is
> > >> that such
> > >> disagreement on fundamentals is suspended. Nonetheless, in
> > >> raising the
> > >> proposal on this list your are inviting collaboration on
> > >> formation of
> > >> the concept of this project, and I have accepted the
> > invitation by
> > >> criticising your concept of the proposal. You have
> propsed the
> > >> writing
> > >> of an article countering the narrative of Ayn Rand that "the
> > >> ultra-wealthy are the engines of advancement and prosperity
> > >> and the
> > >> saviors of society" and to argue instead that "the gradual
> > >> shift in
> > >> political control of the economy over the past 50 years
> by the
> > >> ultra-wealthy has reached a kind of tipping point in
> which the
> > >> gains in
> > >> disparity are so dramatic as to overwhelm any sense of actual
> > >> self-interest." My response is "Well, hello!" This is
> > hardly news,
> > >> David. This has been argued (correctly) for several
> > centuries. The
> > >> wealthy have always been a class of parasites; social
> > progress has
> > >> always been only in the teeth of opposition from all but
> a few
> > >> of that
> > >> class. I would argue that it is better to enter some actual
> > >> project
> > >> aimed against capitalism and ineqaulity and participate
> in the
> > >> argument
> > >> about strategy and tactics. Being 68, after 50 years of such
> > >> participation, I accept a somewhat arm's length
> participation,
> > >> but the
> > >> protagonists (wether real or imagined) are those actually
> > >> engaged in
> > >> that struggle in any formm about how best to further that
> > >> struggle. Not
> > >> the *generalities*, in my view. But I am pleased that you are
> > >> taking up
> > >> the battle and I wish you well. All I can do is offer my
> > >> reflections on
> > >> your object-concept, as others have and will.
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ------------
> > >> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> David H Kirshner wrote:
> > >> >> It would appear ...
> > >> >> >
> > >> > Doesn't appear that way to me.
> > >> > In fact, it's not clear to me, contrary to Andy and Paul,
> > >> that in a practical endeavor one has to come to terms with
> > >> foundational issues, at all.
> > >> > The fact that social psychology may not have the
> foundations
> > >> right doesn't imply that it has no insight to offer, or
> that a
> > >> make-shift frame of reference can't provide a stable enough
> > >> foundation to move people forward (collectively and
> > >> individually). Indeed, isn't that the necessary way
> forward in
> > >> any practical endeavor, given the absence of fully worked out
> > >> foundational perspectives (and given the need to address the
> > >> world as we find it, without the theorist's option of
> > >> restricting the domain of inquiry within tractable
> parameters)?
> > >> > David
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Dr.
> > >> Paul C. Mocombe
> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 6:12 AM
> > >> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity; ablunden@mira.net
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>
> > >> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> > International
> > >> >
> > >> > Andy and david,
> > >> >
> > >> > It would appear that any counter - narrative would have to
> > >> be anti-dialectical and counter-hegemonic, I.e.,
> > >> anti-individual, anti-capitalist, anti-humanity... Can
> such a
> > >> counter - narrative come from a humanity, including us
> > >> academics, subjectified to reproduce individual wealth,
> upward
> > >> mobility, and status at the expense of the masses of poor
> > >> around the world, paradoxically, seeking our bourgeois
> > >> lifestyle? >
> > >> > I ask because, it would appear that the earth,in marxian
> > >> terms, as a class for itself, has been begging for
> humanity to
> > >> change the way it recursively reorganize and reproduce it's
> > >> being-in-it over the last 100 years, but we consistently
> > >> refuse. Instead, turning to dialectical measures, fracking,
> > >> carbon credits, neoliberalism, etc., to attempt to
> resolve our
> > >> problems and maintain the protestant ethic and the spirit of
> > >> capitalism as an "enframing" (heidegger's term) ontology.
> > >> >
> > >> > I am not a pessimistic person, but it appears that in this
> > >> case we are all dead we just do not know it yet.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > Dr. Paul C. Mocombe
> > >> > President
> > >> > The Mocombeian Foundation, Inc.
> > >> > www.mocombeian.com <http://www.mocombeian.com>
> > >> > www.readingroomcurriculum.com
> > >> <http://www.readingroomcurriculum.com>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> > <div>-------- Original message --------</div><div>From:
> > >> David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>>
> > >>
> > >> </div><div>Date:01/21/2014 2:50 AM (GMT-05:00)
> > >> </div><div>To: ablunden@mira.net
> > >> <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>,"eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity"
> > >> <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
> > >>
> > >> </div><div>Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> > >> International </div><div>
> > >> > </div>Andy,
> > >> > I suppose social psychology's unitary and a-historical
> > >> ascription of the human sense of material well-being as
> > >> relative to other people (rather than as relative to
> one's own
> > >> past) gets it wrong from the start. Still, I think it
> provides
> > >> a way to understand the individual pursuit of wealth, carried
> > >> to its limits, as anti-social and destructive; an effective
> > >> counter-narrative to the libertarian ideal of the individual
> > >> unfettered by societal constraints. We badly need a
> > >> counter-narrative to regain some kind of political leverage
> > >> for ordinary citizens.
> > >> > If anyone would like to help pull that together in the form
> > >> of a paper, please reply, on-line or off-.
> > >> > Thanks.
> > >> > David
> > >> > dkirsh@lsu.edu <mailto:dkirsh@lsu.edu>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > -----Original Message-----
> > >> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Andy
> > >> Blunden
> > >> > Sent: Tuesday, January 21, 2014 12:13 AM
> > >> > To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > >> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> > International
> > >> >
> > >> > I certainly hope so, David, or at least, I hope to read and
> > >> participate in acting out the opening chapter of that
> > narrative.
> > >> >
> > >> > I do think that the "99%/1%" narrative was a project doomed
> > >> to failure however, as it conceived of itself as a linear
> > >> expansion which would somehow bypass social and ideological
> > >> differences. It did not conceive of itselfr as a project at
> > >> all. Just a mesage about the one true world which
> everyone had
> > >> to come to. Truly magical realism. The plot lies implicit in
> > >> the opening chapter, but it is always far from easy to
> see how
> > >> the plot will unfold itself though the multiple story-lines
> > >> entailed in this conundrum, Andy
> > >> >
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ------------
> > >> > *Andy Blunden*
> > >> > http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > >>
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > David H Kirshner wrote:
> > >> > >> The operative narrative, at least in the U.S. context,
> > >> dictated by Ayn Rand, is that the ultra-wealthy are the
> > >> engines of advancement and prosperity and the saviors of
> > >> society. What is in their best interest is in all of our best
> > >> interests. We very badly need a counter-narrative.
> > >> >> Andy, is this practical project something that can be
> > >> undertaken and completed in real-time as a theoretical
> project?
> > >> >> David
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > >> >> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Andy
> > >> Blunden
> > >> >> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 11:06 PM
> > >> >> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > >> >> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> > International
> > >> >>
> > >> >> David I have plenty of experience with desparate measures
> > >> over teh
> > >> >> past
> > >> >> 50 years, and I have come very late to "the broader
> > >> theoretical project." It is absolutely essential that the
> > >> practical project and the theoretical project are one and the
> > >> same.
> > >> >>
> > >> >> Andy
> > >> >>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ----------
> > >> >> --
> > >> >> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> >> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >>
> > >> >> David H Kirshner wrote:
> > >> >> >> >>> Andy,
> > >> >>> Sometimes, in order to create a counter-narrative
> that can
> > >> be effective in the here and now, one has to step outside of
> > >> the broader theoretical project. I guess, for some, this
> would
> > >> constitute a distraction from the real work, perhaps a
> > >> violation of the true mission of that scholarly endeavor. For
> > >> others, it might be a legitimate (even if imperfect)
> effort to
> > >> apply what one has come to understand from the larger
> project.
> > >> For others, still, perhaps simply a political activity
> > >> undertaken with theoretical tools, but with little actual
> > >> relation to the theoretical project.
> > >> >>> Perhaps these are desperate measures that these desperate
> > >> times call for.
> > >> >>> David
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> -----Original Message-----
> > >> >>> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
> > >> >>> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> > >> <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>] On Behalf Of Andy
> > >> Blunden
> > >> >>> Sent: Monday, January 20, 2014 10:29 PM
> > >> >>> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > >> >>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: Working for the Few | Oxfam
> > >> International
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> Well, that's the project I have been collaborating in
> > >> since I was a teenager, David, but it has its challenges,
> too,
> > >> you know.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> First off, these observations about social psychology and
> > >> well-being:
> > >> >>> The point is to have a unit of analysis and one which is
> > >> as valid for making observations about psychology as it
> is for
> > >> social theory. And in general, this is lacking for what goes
> > >> by the name of "social psychology." People do not of course
> > >> govern their behaviour by evidence-based investigations
> of the
> > >> likely results of their behaviour.
> > >> >>> People don't set out to "grow a bigger economy" or "have
> > >> more wealth than someone else". The thinking of an individual
> > >> has to be understood (I would contend) within the contexts of
> > >> the projects to which they are committed. That is the reason
> > >> for the relativity in the enjoyment of wealth (which is
> itself
> > >> of course relative). People make judgments according to the
> > >> norms of the project in which they are participating, and
> that
> > >> means semantic, theoretical and practical norms.
> Understanding
> > >> the psychology of political economy is as of one task with
> > >> that of building a project to overthrow the existing
> political
> > >> economic arrangements and build sustainable arrangements.
> That
> > >> requires a multitude of projects all willikng and able to
> > >> collaborate with one another.
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> That's what I think.
> > >> >>> Andy
> > >> >>>
> > >> ------------------------------------------------------------
> > >> ---------
> > >> >>> -
> > >> >>> --
> > >> >>> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> >>> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/>
> > >>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>>
> > >> >>> David H Kirshner wrote:
> > >> >>> >>> >>> >>>> I've been sketching out in my
> > >> mind, but not yet had time to research and write, a paper
> > >> tentatively titled:
> > >> >>>> The Psychology of Greed: Why the Ultra-wealthy are
> > >> Despoiling the
> > >> >>>> Planet, Tanking the Economy, and Gutting our Culture In
> > >> the Quest
> > >> >>>> for More
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> The premise is that the psychological metric of our
> sense
> > >> of material well-being is not accumulation, relative to our
> > >> own past wealth, but the comparative measure of our own
> wealth
> > >> in relation to that of others. (I believe this is a
> > >> well-established principle of social psychology.) So, for
> > >> example, instead of trying to grow a bigger economy which
> > >> requires a large and healthy middle-class (this is what would
> > >> provide more actual wealth for the ultra-wealthy), they are
> > >> eroding the middle-class as quickly as they can--a strategy
> > >> that maximizes disparity.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> The major thesis (in the U.S. context) is that the
> > >> gradual shift in political control of the economy over the
> > >> past 50 years by the ultra-wealthy has reached a kind of
> > >> tipping point in which the gains in disparity are so dramatic
> > >> as to overwhelm any sense of actual self-interest. Hence, we
> > >> see increasingly irrational and self-destructive behavior by
> > >> the ultra-wealthy (e.g., the fraudulent housing bubble that
> > >> created what U.S. economists refer to as The Great
> Recession).
> > >> The conclusion, of course, is a call to action to take back
> > >> control of our political systems so we can set more rational
> > >> policies for the economy.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> I don't know if this thesis extends so easily beyond the
> > >> U.S. situation to the world, but if this project appeals, I
> > >> would welcome a collaborative effort--perhaps even one that
> > >> somehow encompasses the whole XMCA listserv as co-authors.
> > >> >>>>
> > >> >>>> David
> > >> >>>> >>>>
> > >> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>
> > >> >> >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
>
>
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