[Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism

Thu Apr 3 09:35:30 PDT 2014

I believe David is commenting on Joseph's exhortation that we spend our
time more usefully, Michael.

hangin' out in southern california.
mike

On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 2:15 AM, Michael <mlevykh@shaw.ca> wrote:

> David,
>
> But what exactly does your "little experiment" mean?
>
> Michael
>
> -----------------------------------------
>
> Dr. Michael G. Levykh, Ph.D.
>
> Therapist, Affective Speech Remediation
>
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>
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>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
> [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of David Kellogg
> Sent: April-02-14 11:48 PM
> To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism
>
>
>
> I just tried a little experiment. I googled "Think for yourself!" "Be
>
> relevant!" and "Be useful!" to see how many times someone has had,
>
> more or less, these exact sentiments in these exact words.
>
>
>
> Here's what I found:
>
>
>
> "Be useful!"  4,030,020 matches in .32 seconds.
>
>
>
> "Be relevant!" 607,000,000 in 0.26 seconds. (Much easier to find.)
>
>
>
> "Think for yourself!" 717 million mentions in only .040 seconds!
>
>
>
> David Kellogg
>
> Hankuk University of Foreign Studies
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On 3 April 2014 11:24, Lois Holzman <lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org>
> wrote:
>
> > Joseph
>
> > I'd like to know more about you. I appreciate your comment on the current
> "conversational thread."
>
> > Lois
>
> >
>
> > Lois Holzman
>
> > Director, East Side Institute for Group & Short Term Psychotherapy
>
> > 104-106 South Oxford Street
>
> > Brooklyn, New York 11217
>
> > Chair, Global Outreach, All Stars Project, UX
>
> > Tel. +1.212.941.8906 x324
>
> > Fax +1.718.797.3966
>
> > lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>
> > Social Media
>
> > Facebook | LinkedIn | Twitter
>
> > Blogs
>
> > Psychology Today| Psychology of Becoming | ESI Community News
>
> > Websites
>
> > Lois Holzman | East Side Institute | Performing the World
>
> > All Stars Project
>
> >
>
> >
>
> >
>
> > On Apr 2, 2014, at 12:49 PM, Joseph Gilbert <joeg4us@roadrunner.com>
> wrote:
>
> >
>
> >> May I suggest that you-all emphasize your own questioning and thinking
> rather than mainly referring to great innovators and thinkers of the past.
> By concentrating on what has already been said by recognized authorities,
> one stays mired in the past. It is natural for intelligent, conscious
> beings
> to have their own wonderings/questions. What are yours? Do you wish to
> remake the world in any way? Would you like to have a peaceful planet for
> your grandchildren? What needs to be done in order to achieve that? How
> about a new perception, an updated world-view, based upon our best current
> knowledge of human nature? Just as many Christians look backward to Jesus
> to
> chart their course, academicians in this current corporate state tend to
> remain stuck in the already accepted arguments and premises established
> long
> ago. Please break free and really accomplish something useful with your
> wealth of knowledge rather than mostly engaging in "small talk" among your
> cohorts in an isolated i
>
>  vory tower. We (humanity) need all the help we can get. It seems you
> should
> be able to do more than split hairs among yourselves while the real needs
> of
> the world go unaddressed. Get back to the basics and build from there,
> using
> what you really believe to be true as your navigational instruments. Think
> for yourselves! Be original! Be relevant! Be useful!
>
> >>
>
> >>               Joseph Gilbert
>
> >>
>
> >> On Apr 2, 2014, at 8:27 AM, mike cole <lchcmike@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>
>
> >>> Seems like you nailed it, Robert, (and Benjamin read it there?).
>
> >>>
>
> >>> The lesson I take away from this is that we are all "so-called
> thinkers"
> by
>
> >>> virtue  of the fact that our consciousness is mediated through culture.
> The
>
> >>> imagined present never precisely matches the encountered future.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> In so far as there is an antidote to this characteristic of humans, so
> far
>
> >>> as I can figure out, it is develop cultural practices that might be
> called
>
> >>> "critical" in that they diverge from the common imaginary worlds.
> Having
>
> >>> criticized, the preferred next step would be to test out your imagined
>
> >>> world in practice in order to discover its flaws.
>
> >>>
>
> >>> What do others conclude?
>
> >>> mike
>
> >>>
>
> >>>
>
> >>> On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 7:56 PM, Robert Lake
> <boblake@georgiasouthern.edu>wrote:
>
> >>>
>
> >>>> See highlighted phrase below :-).
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Marx-Engels Correspondence 1893
>
> >>>> Engels to Franz Mehring Abstract
>
> >>>> ------------------------------
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Source: *Marx and Engels Correspondence*;
>
> >>>> Publisher: International Publishers (1968);
>
> >>>> First Published: *Gestamtausgabe*;
>
> >>>> Translated: Donna Torr;
>
> >>>> Transcribed: Sally
>
> >>>> Ryan<http://www.marxists.org/admin/volunteers/biographies/sryan.htm
> >in
>
> >>>> 2000;
>
> >>>> HTML Markup: Sally Ryan.
>
> >>>> ------------------------------
>
> >>>> London, July 14, 1893
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Today is my first opportunity to thank you for the *Lessing Legend*
> you
>
> >>>> were kind enough to send me. I did not want to reply with a bare
> formal
>
> >>>> acknowledgment of receipt of the book but intended at the same time to
> tell
>
> >>>> you something about it, about its contents. Hence the delay.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> I shall begin at the end -- the appendix on historical materialism, in
> which
>
> >>>> you have described the main things excellently and for any
> unprejudiced
>
> >>>> person convincingly. If I find anything to object to it is that you
>
> >>>> attribute more credit to me than I deserve, even if I count in
> everything
>
> >>>> which I might possibly have found out for myself - in time - but which
> Marx
>
> >>>> with his more rapid *coup d'oeil* (grasp) and wider vision discovered
> much
>
> >>>> more quickly. When one has the good fortune to work for forty years
> with a
>
> >>>> man like Marx, one does not usually get the recognition one thinks one
>
> >>>> deserves during his lifetime. Then if the greater man dies, the lesser
>
> >>>> easily gets overrated, and this seems to me to be just my case at
> present;
>
> >>>> history will set all this right in the end and by that time one will
> be
>
> >>>> safely round the corner and know nothing more about anything.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Otherwise there is only one other point lacking, which, however, Marx
> and I
>
> >>>> always failed to stress enough in our writings and in regard to which
> we
>
> >>>> are all equally guilty. That is to say, we all laid, and *were bound
> to
>
> >>>> lay*,
>
> >>>> the main emphasis, in the first place, on the *derivation* of
> political,
>
> >>>> juridical and other ideological notions, and of actions arising
> through
> the
>
> >>>> medium of these notions, from basic economic facts. But in so doing we
>
> >>>> neglected the formal side -- the ways and means by which these
> notions,
>
> >>>> etc., come about -- for the sake of the content. This has given our
>
> >>>> adversaries a welcome opportunity for misunderstandings, of which Paul
>
> >>>> Barth is a striking example.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> Ideology is a process accomplished by the so-called thinker
> consciously,
>
> >>>> indeed, but with a false consciousness.
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>> On Tue, Apr 1, 2014 at 9:24 PM, Martin John Packer
>
> >>>> <mpacker@uniandes.edu.co>wrote:
>
> >>>>
>
> >>>>> Wikipedia attributes the phase to Engels.
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> Martin
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>> On Apr 1, 2014, at 8:13 PM, Douglas Williams <djwdoc@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>> Hi--
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> The term false consciousness is from Walter Benjamin in a 1930
> review
>
> >>>> of
>
> >>>>> Siegfried Kracauer's Die Angestellten, drawing from Marx. The idea in
>
> >>>> Marx
>
> >>>>> is described in terms of alienation and estrangement from real
> objects
>
> >>>> and
>
> >>>>> activity.
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>
> https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1844/manuscripts/labour.htm
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> ________________________________
>
> >>>>>> From: Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net>
>
> >>>>>> To: "eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity" <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>
>
> >>>>>> Sent: Tuesday, April 1, 2014 5:14 PM
>
> >>>>>> Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: vygotsky's theory and symbolic interactionism
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> Tom, so far as I know, the term "false consciousness" was invented
> by
>
> >>>>>> feminists in the 1970s and was never used by Marx, and I don't think
>
> >>>> the
>
> >>>>>> concept is consistent with his ideas, as expressed in the Theses on
>
> >>>>>> Feuerbach which you quoted, for example.
>
> >>>>>> Andy
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>
> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> >>>>>> *Andy Blunden*
>
> >>>>>> http://home.mira.net/~andy/
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>>
>
> >>>>>> Tom Richardson wrote:
>
> >>>>>>> ... In the first place, it should be noted that Marx, like Spinoza
> and
>
> >>>>> later
>
> >>>>>>> Freud, believed that most of what men consciously think is "false"
>
> >>>>>>> consciousness, is ideology and rationalization; that the true
>
> >>>>> mainsprings
>
> >>>>>>> of man's actions are unconscious to him.
>
> >>>>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>>
>
> >>>>
>
> >>
>
> >>
>
> >
>
>