[Xmca-l] Re: A Question about Reading and Motivation
mike cole
lchcmike@gmail.com
Sun Sep 1 08:37:42 PDT 2013
Bill --
For a different critique of the Whole Language approach of earlier decades
in which the authors
were not smitten with bottom up phonics approaches either, see
http://lchc.ucsd.edu/People/NEWTECHN.pdf
mike
On Sun, Sep 1, 2013 at 1:55 AM, Bill Kerr <billkerr@gmail.com> wrote:
> The evidence suggests that whole language or "balanced" teaching of early
> reading does not work very well (for many, not all) and that "direct,
> intensive, systematic, early, and comprehensive (DISEC) instruction, of a
> prearranged hierarchy of discrete reading skills (particularly, how to
> apply phonics information to recognize written words), is the most
> effective beginning reading tuition".
>
> See
> http://www.nrrf.org/review_moats_5-01.htm (Groff reviewing Moats)
> and
> http://files.eric.ed.gov/fulltext/ED449465.pdf (Moats)
>
> Patrick Groff (from the first reference):
>
> Moats implies that a large number of educators were besmitten by
> progressive education ideals before the appearance of WL in the 1970s. Why
> else was it that educators since the 1970s have "rushed to embrace" WL? It
> is "a set of [scientifically] unfounded ideas and practices, without any
> evidence [on hand] that children would learn to read better, earlier, or in
> greater numbers" through it than before. In their "love affair with whole
> language," progressive educators unsurprisingly "were easily persuaded"
> that scientific data "had little to offer them" regarding reading
> instruction. As a result, reading "skill building and skill instruction"
> were readily cast aside by progressive-minded teachers as "boring,
> isolated, meaningless, and dreadful" practices.
>
> It appears Moats suggests that teachers, education professors, school
> officials, and state departments of education largely remain progressive in
> their outlook on reading instruction, i.e., are opposed ideologically to
> DISEC reading teaching.
>
>
> Similar arguments have been advanced by Australian educators who have
> worked many years with poor readers, eg. Kevin and Robyn Wheldall and their
> MULTILIT programme.
>
>
>
> On Thu, Aug 29, 2013 at 4:09 PM, David H Kirshner <dkirsh@lsu.edu> wrote:
>
> > In thinking about the relationship between socialization and identity, I
> > find it useful to distinguish between two distinct notions of
> > socialization: spontaneous enculturation into a unitary cultural milieu,
> > and deliberate acculturation into a subculture whose practices are
> > distinctive among a range of other subcultures'.
> >
> > The social psychology of personal space, or proxemics (Hall, 1966; Li,
> > 2001), provides a clear example of the former. Proxemics is the tendency
> > for members of a national culture to draw specific perimeters around
> their
> > physical bodies for various social purposes. For example, natives of
> France
> > tend to prefer closer physical proximity for conversation than do
> Americans
> > (Remland, Jones, & Brinkman, 1991). What is interesting about proxemic
> > practices (and enculturation, more generally) is that they are acquired
> > without volition or conscious awareness through enmeshment in a cultural
> > environment (Parsons, 1951). Indeed, as Omar (2010) explains, for
> cultural
> > norms to be "normative" they have to be unconscious:
> >
> > "Parsons defined 'internalization' as 'unconscious introjection' which
> > meant that if an actor was socialized into a norm, then the actor was
> > unconscious of how that norm determined her conduct. In essence, the
> > Parsonian socialized actor cannot take norms as an object of reflexive
> > consideration and strategization, for if that were the case then the norm
> > would lose its status as 'normative' and would become just another
> > instrumental resource for action."
> >
> > The counterpart to spontaneous processes of enculturation into an
> > enveloping culture, is an individual's deliberate adaptation to a
> > subculture through emulation of its distinctive practices. For obvious
> > reasons, acculturation is the more salient process, and historically was
> > identified much earlier (Powell, 1883). Indeed, we might not be aware of
> > proxemic practices at all, if not for crosscultural experience and
> > scholarship. But by the same token, we probably should assume that
> > enculturation is a ubiquitous aspect of cultural participation. Even in
> > cases when one actively seeks membership in a subculture through
> > acculturationist strategies, enculturation is the more basic processes; a
> > culture is comprised of innumerable cultural practices of which only a
> > limited number can be addressed through conscious strategies of
> > acculturation.
> >
> > For a practice like reading, it can be difficult to parse where
> > enculturation leaves off and acculturation begins. Literacy, obviously,
> is
> > an important subcultural marker of certain social classes. As such,
> > practices of reading can be undertaken as a strategy of acculturation.
> Even
> > within a household, a child may see literacy as a means of projecting
> > oneself into the subculture of adulthood over one's current identity as a
> > child (am I pushing the notion of subculture too far?). On the other
> hand,
> > at a more fine-grained level of analysis, there may be a wide variety of
> > culturally specific manners of reading that are not consciously
> recognized
> > as subcultural markers, and hence absorbed spontaneously through
> > enculturation.
> >
> > David
> >
> > Hall, E. T. (1966) The hidden dimension. New York: Doubleday.
> >
> > Li, S. (2001). How close is too close?: A comparison of proxemic
> reactions
> > of Singaporean Chinese to male intruders of four ethnicities. Perceptual
> > and Motor Skills, 93, 124-126.
> >
> > Omar (2010, January 16). Is your (institutional) theory "Parsonian"? A
> > technical criterion. Orgtheory.net.
> >
> > Parsons, T. (1951). The social system. London: Routledge & Kegan Paul.
> >
> > Powell, J. W. (1883). Human evolution: Annual address of the President,
> J.
> > W. Powell, Delivered November 6, 1883. Transactions of the
> Anthropological
> > Society of Washington, 2, 176-208.
> >
> > Remland, M.S., Jones, T. S., & Brinkman, H. (1991). Proxemic and haptic
> > behavior in three European countries. Journal of Nonverbal Behavior,
> 15(4),
> > 215-232.
> >
> >
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu [mailto:
> > xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu] On Behalf Of Larry Purss
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2013 11:41 PM
> > To: Andy Blunden; eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
> > Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: A Question about Reading and Motivation
> >
> > Andy,
> >
> > I have wondered if in a culture where hunting with bows and arrows is
> > valued, the child grows ups motivated to be skilled with using a bow. Is
> > the motivation *learning to read* the identification of wanting to be
> like
> > the others who participate in your world.
> > In our culture, [especially within schools], if reading is the way people
> > participate in sharing narrative than this MODE of communication is
> valued.
> > Is identification with doing what others are doing a motivation?
> >
> > Beginning reading activity is a form of collaboration. As you mentioned,
> > collaboration may be master/slave, producer/consumer, or collaboration
> per
> > se. However, the activity *learning to read* can be displayed in all
> three
> > types of collaboration. The motivation is identification WITH ...??? in
> all
> > 3 types of collaboration.
> >
> > Larry
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 8:19 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net> wrote:
> >
> > > So what this leads to is that my earlier formulation of motivations
> > > for reading which can create the conditions for someone to "learn to
> > > read" has to be generalised. And I guess that different "interests" or
> > > "pleasures" to be had from reading can be used to make an effective
> > motive for reading.
> > > But I am trying to put my finger on the differene between offering a
> > > "reward" for reading and the object which turns out to be attainable
> > > essentially only through reading, be that the satisfaction of solving
> > > an integral equation, or the joy of entering Jane Austen's world or
> > > simply being able to read what everyone is talking about. Does this
> > > mean that the teacher's task is to somehow allow the learner, with
> > > assistance, to get a taste of that object, whichever it is that turns
> on
> > this reader?
> > >
> > >
> > > Andy
> > > ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > > ------------
> > > *Andy Blunden*
> > > http://home.mira.net/~andy/
> > >
> > >
> > > mike cole wrote:
> > >
> > >> Yes, once one learns to read for meaning in Dewey's sense, and mine,
> > >> marvelous things may result.
> > >>
> > >> The acquisition of reading, however, is not governed by phylogenetic
> > >> constraints in the same way that the acquisition of oral/sign language
> > is.
> > >> It is a cultural-historically developed mode of mediated meaning
> making.
> > >> With few exceptions, it requires literate others to arrange for it to
> > >> happen.
> > >>
> > >> Consequently, getting there through the meat grinder of modern
> > >> schooling, is a continuing issue. As is the notion of the violence of
> > >> literacy.
> > >>
> > >> mike
> > >> (The Dickens freak)
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:51 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net
> <mailto:
> > >> ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Thank you Michael! It is always such a wonderful thing when
> > >> someone reveals to you what was before your eyes but you didn't
> > >> see! I had to put down a novel to read your message. I think I
> > >> take "the world" to be inclusive of imaginative world evoked by a
> > >> text, and suddenly, yes, I can see that youngsters generally read
> > >> lots of fiction and if they enjoy it, that is a royal road to
> > >> becoming a reader - even though, in a sense, the printed words
> > >> disappear under their gaze as they evoke that imaginary world. I
> > >> also think the social motivations are broadly covered by my
> > >> initial very 'utilitarian' view of the object of reading. But what
> > >> you describe as "the intellectual pleasure of figuring something
> > >> out," which I guess is one of the things that used to motivate me
> > >> at school with maths, and that is something else! Thank you. The
> > >> world is always richer than what one at first thought, isn't it?
> > >> Andy
> > >> ------------------------------**------------------------------**
> > >> ------------
> > >> *Andy Blunden*
> > >> http://home.mira.net/~andy/ <http://home.mira.net/%7Eandy/**>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> MICHAEL W SMITH wrote:
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> A colleague and I just completed a study of the nature and
> > >> variety of pleasure adolescents take from their out-of-school
> > >> reading that draws on Dewey's delineation of four kinds of
> > >> educative interest in /Interest and Effort in Education. /One
> > >> kind of pleasure we identified is what we call work pleasure
> > >> in which readers use a text as a tool to accomplish some other
> > >> end. That's the kind of pleasure that Andy seems to be talking
> > >> about when he writes about someone's struggling to read a
> > >> philosophical text to get something out of it that could then
> > >> be usefully employed in some other context. But there are
> > >> other kinds of pleasure. As Dewey explains "There are cases
> > >> where action is direct and immediate. It puts itself forth
> > >> with no thought of anything beyond. It satisfies in and of
> > >> itself. The end is the present activity, and so there is no
> > >> gap in the mind between means and end. All play is of this
> > >> immediate character." Readers experience the pleasure of play
> > >> when they read narratives to immerse themselves in a story
> > >> world. What matters to them is the pleasure they get from
> > >> living through the experiences of characters in the here and
> > >> now not what they can accomplish as a consequence of their
> > >> reading at some future time. Another kind of pleasure is
> > >> intellectual pleasure. Dewey explains that "instead of
> > >> thinking things out and discovering them for the sake of the
> > >> successful achievement of an activity (work pleasure)," we may
> > >> institute an activity for the intellectual pleasure of
> > >> figuring something out. An example would be reading to
> > >> unravel the complexities of poem as an end in itself. Finally
> > >> there are social pleasures in reading. People read to
> > >> affiliate with others. That seems to me to be a kind of
> > >> pleasure people on this listserv take. Or people read to mark
> > >> their place in the world. They do a kind of identity work by
> > >> using their reading to assert their difference from others.
> > >> One of the informants in our study avoided reading the books
> > >> that were most popular among her friends and instead read what
> > >> she called dark fiction. That reading was an important part of
> > >> how she understood herself. As she said "I'm weird in the way
> > >> that [I don't have] inhibitions like most people. I can read
> > >> dark fiction and not be disturbed by it." I'd argue that
> > >> teachers are most likely to foster motivation to read by
> > >> creating contexts in which students can experience all four
> > >> kinds of pleasure.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On Wed, Aug 28, 2013 at 4:43 AM, rjsp2
> > >> <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk
> > >> <mailto:r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.**uk<r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> > >> >
> > >> <mailto:r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.**uk <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>
> > >>
> > >> <mailto:r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.**uk
> > >> <r.j.s.parsons@open.ac.uk>>>>
> > >> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> The first thing I thought on reading "assistance is given
> > >> to kids to
> > >>
> > >> read in order to find out something they want to know
> > >> about the world"
> > >> was "This is basic Freire". Adult literacy had the same
> > >> problem of
> > >> meaningless texts till Freire came along and started
> > >> teaching them
> > >> about
> > >> things that mattered to them. It also made me reflect on
> > >> the idea of
> > >> motive, whihc has for a long time been a question I have
> > been
> > >> intending
> > >> to examine "when I have time". When I met the activity
> > >> triangle,
> > >> one of
> > >> the most obvious issues about it was that it contains no
> > >> separate
> > >> place
> > >> for motive. After a while that seemed logical because the
> > >> motive
> > >> was in
> > >> the object, and maybe one of our difficulties is that we
> > >> separate
> > >> motive
> > >> out from object in order to understand it better, and then
> > >> forget
> > >> to put
> > >> it back in again.
> > >>
> > >> Children are just like people, they do need a reason to do
> > >> things.
> > >> I've
> > >> always been puzzled by the idea of andragogy, the
> > >> suggestion that
> > >> adults
> > >> learn differently from children. Proponents usually list
> > >> several
> > >> reasons
> > >> which usually make no sense to me. One of the reasons
> > >> usually given is
> > >> that adults need to know why they are doing something, the
> > >> unspoken
> > >> contrast being presumably that children happily do what
> > >> they're told.
> > >> The kind of research you refer to here, Andy, suggests
> that
> > >> children do
> > >> need to know why they are doing something, but lack the
> > >> power to
> > >> say so.
> > >> Hence, I think, a lot of the problems evident in our UK
> > >> schooling
> > >> system
> > >> (lots of great schools, in my opinion, dreadful
> > >> educational policies
> > >> dictate that children are machined through exams in order
> > >> to maintain
> > >> the school's place in the league table. So there is a
> > >> reason why the
> > >> children do what they do, it is just not relevant to the
> > >> child.)
> > >>
> > >> Rob
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> On 28/08/2013 08:27, Andy Blunden wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Re: Peg Griffin -
> > >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/**
> > >> xmcamail.2011_05.dir/msg00530.**html<
> > http://lchc.ucsd.edu/MCA/Mail/xmcamail.2011_05.dir/msg00530.html>
> > >> and Peg and Mike et al:
> > >>
> > >> http://lchc.ucsd.edu/People/**NEWTECHN.pdf<http://lchc.ucsd.edu/Peopl
> > >> e/NEWTECHN.pdf>
> > >>
> > >> The first article sets up a scenario in 5thD where
> kids
> > >> "sneak" a look
> > >> at piece of writing in order to find an answer to a
> > >> current
> > >> affairs
> > >> question. As opposed to telling the kids to read a
> > >> text and
> > >> then (for
> > >> example) testing them on it.
> > >> The second talks about "reading for meaning" where
> > >> assistance
> > >> is given
> > >> to kids to read in order to find out something they
> > >> want to
> > >> know about
> > >> the world. As opposed to decoding "Jack and Jill"
> > stories
> > >> containing
> > >> nothing of interest to them at all (and actually
> > >> humiliating).
> > >>
> > >> I am trying to get my head around the issue of the
> > >> motivation
> > >> which
> > >> the teachers are trying to engender in the child which
> > >> facilitates
> > >> learning to read.
> > >>
> > >> Following A N Leontyev, Peg talks about the "merely
> > >> understood" motive
> > >> for the child "to be a productive, informed, literate
> > >> citizen"
> > >> which
> > >> is what the education system is supposed to be doing.
> > >> Peg says
> > >> this
> > >> motive was "in the social interactions and ready to
> > >> replace the
> > >> 'really effective' motives that got the kid to come
> > >> to/put up
> > >> with our
> > >> reading group." ... *in the social interactions*!
> > >>
> > >> Generally speaking I think there is no doubt that the
> > >> distinction
> > >> between "really effective" and "merely understood"
> > >> motives is
> > >> valid,
> > >> and that in general children who have difficulty in
> > >> reading,
> > >> read only
> > >> for "effective" but "external" motives which do not
> > >> succeed in
> > >> them
> > >> learning to read effectively. Further, the task of the
> > >> teacher
> > >> may be
> > >> or may be supposed to be to get the child to learn to
> > >> read so
> > >> as "to
> > >> be a productive, informed, literate citizen." This
> > >> objective is
> > >> somewhere in the complex of motives underlying a
> > teacher's
> > >> motives,
> > >> certainly in 5thD, but I suspect often a "merely
> > >> understood"
> > >> motive
> > >> for many teachers, alongside earning a wage for their
> > >> own family,
> > >> having a quiet day and the kids getting good test
> > >> scores, etc.
> > >>
> > >> But I question whether it is *ever* the child's motive
> > >> "to be a
> > >> productive, informed, literate citizen." This may be
> > >> an "internal
> > >> reward" for learning to read, but not for learning to
> > >> read any
> > >> particular text or even a particular type of text.
> > >>
> > >> Would this explanation make sense: Learning to read is
> > >> like
> > >> happiness.
> > >> It does not generally arise through being the
> > >> motivation of the
> > >> activity which produces it. People learn to read as a
> > >> byproduct of
> > >> struggling to get something they want out of
> > >> particular texts. And
> > >> this applies to adults as much as children. I think
> > >> people can
> > >> only
> > >> learn to read philosophy if they are struggling to get
> > >> something out
> > >> of a book on philosophy (other than pass the exam or
> > >> acquire
> > >> an air of
> > >> erudition). In Peg's email message we learn that the
> > kids
> > >> jumped on
> > >> the newspaper article to extract information they
> > >> wanted in
> > >> (what they
> > >> took to be) /another/ task. In the QAR story, adults
> > >> mediate kids'
> > >> relation to a text which is in turn mediating their
> > >> real and
> > >> meaningful relation to the world. (I think if a kid is
> > >> strongly enough
> > >> motivated to pass a reading test, and assisted, they
> > >> will usually
> > >> manage to learn to read, but it is for those for whom
> > >> this doesn't
> > >> work that the issue arises, isn't it?)
> > >>
> > >> But in general I think it is neither necessary nor
> > >> likely that
> > >> a child
> > >> has their eye on becoming a literate citizen when they
> > >> struggle with a
> > >> text and learn to read in the process. Isn't it always
> > >> more
> > >> proximate
> > >> motives? The "internal" reward in reading a particular
> > >> text is the
> > >> particular content of that text, not actually anything
> > >> to do with
> > >> books, or texts, or reading or citizenship.
> > >>
> > >> I know there are dozens of experts in literacy
> > >> education out
> > >> there, so
> > >> please help me.
> > >>
> > >> Andy
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -- The Open University is incorporated by Royal Charter
> (RC
> > >> 000391), an exempt charity in England & Wales and a
> charity
> > >> registered in Scotland (SC 038302).
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> -- Michael W. Smith
> > >> Professor and Chair
> > >> Department of Teaching and Learning
> > >> Temple University
> > >> College of Education
> > >> 351 Ritter Hall
> > >> 1301 Cecil B. Moore Avenue
> > >> Philadelphia, PA 19122
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >>
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
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