[Xmca-l] Re: Do adults play?

[Lois Holzman]

Thanks, Greg.
We thought it would be variously evocative!
Some others:
And, "We Shall Overcome"..but looking forward to the attitude and practice of performance — if we are to overcome, we must become.
And Vygotsky, "a head taller in play"
Lois

  
Don't forget to check out the latest at http://loisholzman.org and http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/conceptual-revolution

Lois Holzman, Ph.D.
Director, East Side Institute for Group and Short Term Psychotherapy
104-106 South Oxford St.
Brooklyn NY 11217
Chair, Global Outreach for All Stars Project UX 
tel. 212.941.8906 ext. 324
fax 718.797.3966
lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
eastsideinstitute.org
performingtheworld.org
loisholzman.org
allstars.org
http://esicommunitynews.wordpress.com/







On Oct 24, 2013, at 11:10 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:

> Or differently playfully, Nietzsche's:
> 
> "Become who you are"
> 
> -greg
> 
> 
> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:08 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:
> 
>> Lois,
>> The title reminds me of a favorite line from Lloyd Alexander's Castle of
>> Llyr:
>> 
>> "Child, child, do you not see? For each of us comes a time when we must be
>> more than what we are."
>> 
>> -greg
>> 
>> 
>> On Thu, Oct 24, 2013 at 9:20 AM, Lois Holzman <
>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org> wrote:
>> 
>>> A propos this thread, I invite folks to peruse performingtheworld.organd read the attached announcement and call for proposals for the 8th
>>> Performing the World conference to be held in NYC October 10-12, 2014—with
>>> the theme "How Shall We Become?" The gathering brings together hundreds who
>>> are doing/studying (and even theorizing) play and performance with people
>>> of all ages. If you want to see adults play, this is one place to do it.
>>> Lois
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Don't forget to check out the latest at http://loisholzman.org and
>>> http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/conceptual-revolution
>>> 
>>> Lois Holzman, Ph.D.
>>> Director, East Side Institute for Group and Short Term Psychotherapy
>>> 104-106 South Oxford St.
>>> Brooklyn NY 11217
>>> Chair, Global Outreach for All Stars Project UX
>>> tel. 212.941.8906 ext. 324
>>> fax 718.797.3966
>>> lholzman@eastsideinstitute.org
>>> eastsideinstitute.org
>>> performingtheworld.org
>>> loisholzman.org
>>> allstars.org
>>> http://esicommunitynews.wordpress.com/
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 5:49 PM, CAITLIN WUBBENA <cwubbena@gse.upenn.edu>
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I agree that play allows us to construct realities (through play, we're
>>>> able to imagine ourselves in new situations and are then able to
>>> construct
>>>> realities based on that "practice"). I think Vygotsky does a good job of
>>>> setting that up. Kendall Walton also states that those who play develop
>>>> better people skills (empathy, etc). I'm looking forward to reading the
>>>> Luria article.
>>>> 
>>>> I'm curious, from that point, how play could be conceived as enabling
>>>> people to do better work. Maybe there's a way to make a "play as
>>> developing
>>>> human capital" argument. The set up is definitely there and I think
>>> we've
>>>> begun to touch upon that question. But I'm curious if there is more
>>>> explicit evidence that proves this suspicion I have that people who play
>>>> more in childhood are more comfortable "playing" with intellectual ideas
>>>> later in life and, thus, produce better academic products.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 11:00 AM, Larry Purss <lpscholar2@gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> Greg,
>>>>> Let's follow your lead or guidance [or invitation]whaen you pose the
>>>>> question:
>>>>> Seems like Vygotsky and mead would suggest that play changes over
>>>>> developmental time. But it seems like vygotskys narrative of the
>>>>> development of play has the main character, play,going down in a blaze
>>> of
>>>>> glory - sacrificing itself for the sake of the Sacred Symbolic
>>> Development.
>>>>> This question poses *play* as the main *character* in earlier *stages*
>>> [?]
>>>>> of development who then in a blaze of glory leaves the stage for the
>>> sake
>>>>> of *Sacred Symbolic to take over center stage.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I would like to bring in Luria's article "The Problem" which Huw
>>> recently
>>>>> attached to explore this entering and leaving the stage [situation,
>>>>> context]
>>>>> 
>>>>> The hypothesis is that the dominance of "graphical-functional" forms of
>>>>> *knowledge* transform when economic forces of production change [and
>>> school
>>>>> becomes an arena of development]
>>>>> In Luria's words, "We needed to examine how REASONING processes took
>>> place,
>>>>> whether they were part of the subjects' DIRECT practical EXPERIENCE and
>>>>> what changes they underwent when reasoning WENT BEYOND graphic
>>> functional
>>>>> practice and into the REALM of theoretical or FORMALIZED [systematized,
>>>>> sedimented] thought."
>>>>> 
>>>>> The next paragraph captures Greg's graphic-functional character exiting
>>>>> stage left while "Sacred Symbolic" enters the *play*.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Luria continues, "The next stage was a study of IMAGINATIVE PROCESSES,
>>> THE
>>>>> REMOVAL OF ONESELF from IMMEDIATE perception [?? M-P would say ALL
>>>>> perception involves tradition] and operation on a PURELY symbolic,
>>> verbal,
>>>>> and logical level."
>>>>> 
>>>>> Now my further question [invitation to dialogue] is to wonder if there
>>> is
>>>>> another *act* on this stage of consciousness??
>>>>> 
>>>>> Perception AS *mediated* [not immediate] implies
>>>>> graphic-functional orienting as involving *traditions*.
>>>>> "Sacred Symbolic" requires *imaginal realms*.
>>>>> Is there a need for reflecting on the notions of *knowledge* and
>>>>> *understanding*.
>>>>> Knowledge appropriated FROM the external inwards while understanding
>>> moves
>>>>> FROM the internal directed outwards?
>>>>> I am using the inside/outside as metaphorical to IMAGINE  a graphical
>>>>> image. In reality experience moves in EXCESS [m-p] of all metaphors and
>>>>> models.
>>>>> The move to distinquish knowledge and understanding may return us to
>>> the
>>>>> realm of *play* [Huw's reminder that play is *as if* knowledge and
>>>>> understanding]
>>>>> Larry
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 6:49 AM, <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> Yes, Doug, you speak to the heart of the CHAT Matter, is the play of
>>>>>> adults the same as the play of children? Or is there a development or
>>> two
>>>>>> along the way that involves a radical transformation in the
>>> possibilities
>>>>>> of play.
>>>>>> Seems like Vygotsky and mead would suggest that play changes over
>>>>>> developmental time. But it seems like vygotskys narrative of the
>>>>>> development of play has the main character, play,going down in a
>>> blaze of
>>>>>> glory -  sacrificing itself for the sake of the Sacred Symbolic
>>>>> Development.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> But maybe I've got that wrong?
>>>>>> Greg
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2013, at 2:31 AM, Douglas Williams <djwdoc@yahoo.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Hi--
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> I play bridge....does that count? :)
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> What is play? In all species, a rehearsal; a symbolic enactment
>>> echoing
>>>>>> past and future activity. In humans, a possible world that represents
>>>>> what
>>>>>> is, what was, and what could be, in a symbolic form that enables it
>>> to be
>>>>>> shaped through thinking about rules, relationships, perceptions, and
>>>>>> feelings. Games are the sum of human experience, in a form more
>>> available
>>>>>> for introspection and renovation than the "real" world, precisely
>>> because
>>>>>> they are games. Bridge, for example, is a game of coalitions, of
>>>>> strategy,
>>>>>> of psychology, of deception, none of which is so far distant from the
>>>>> real
>>>>>> politics of offices and of the streets. On another level, the Duke of
>>>>>> Wellington famously (and for some, inexplicably) observed that the
>>> Battle
>>>>>> of Waterloo was won on the playing fields of Eton. What Wellington
>>> meant
>>>>> is
>>>>>> that the rehearsal of adversity and courage in sport enabled a beaten
>>>>> army
>>>>>> to persevere in following a strategy that enabled that beaten army to
>>>>> win a
>>>>>> long and
>>>>>>> terrible battle. Wellington meant that field sport games, in their
>>>>> often
>>>>>> wanton brutality and sudden reversals, prepared his field commanders
>>> to
>>>>>> treat the even more wanton brutality and reversal of war with
>>> practiced
>>>>>> familiarity and undaunted spirit, in the certain belief that as they
>>> had
>>>>>> come from behind to win at Eton, so they would at Waterloo.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> We are a symbolic species. We live and breathe symbols. We dream of
>>>>>> ourselves and each other, and out of our dreams, the world is given
>>> form
>>>>>> and substance. Communities take shape, symbolic interactions begin,
>>> and
>>>>>> towers of iron and concrete expand outward and upward from doodles.
>>> And
>>>>>> sometimes, we just remind ourselves in games of who we are, and where
>>> we
>>>>>> come from. I lay an offering of that kind of play before you.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> http://uwch-4.humanities.washington.edu/~WG/~DCIII/120F%20Course%20Reader/CR5_Geertz_Deep%20Play.pdf
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Adults not play? What is the business of minds such as ours, if not
>>> to
>>>>>> dream of the impossible, and make it real? Or, in the words of a Mr.
>>>>>> Church, who was confronted with similar doubts:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> No Santa Claus! Thank God! he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand
>>>>>> years from now, Virginia,  nay, ten times ten thousand years from
>>> now, he
>>>>>> will continue to make glad the heart of childhood.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> ...and I would add, the minds of adults.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>>>> Doug
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> On Monday, October 21, 2013 5:38 PM, "White, Phillip" <
>>>>>> Phillip.White@ucdenver.edu> wrote:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Greg  -  Valerie back-channeled me:
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Something quantum physics going on here in a gnomic zen sort of way.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> Valerie
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> and in considering what she wrote, i am now wondering if classical
>>>>>> mechanical physics isn't being used here in xmca to explain
>>>>>> perception/consciousness and the distinction between "play" and
>>>>> "reality"  -
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> whereas, for our 'mind', in the world of quantum physics, what is
>>>>>> perceived - regardless theater, performance, movies, television,
>>> whatever
>>>>>> the media - the mind does not discriminate between what we call 'real'
>>>>> and
>>>>>> 'imaginary' .  it's all the same.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> so perhaps it's a false duality to think of play and real as polar
>>>>>> opposites, but rather multiple genres of performance would better work
>>>>> as a
>>>>>> theoretical framework.
>>>>>>> 
>>>>>>> phillip
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
> Visiting Assistant Professor
> Department of Anthropology
> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
> Brigham Young University
> Provo, UT 84602
> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson