[Xmca-l] Re: (no subject)

Fri Oct 11 20:18:02 PDT 2013

Hello, Caitlin,
I'm jumping in quick before the thread vanishes.  The last time I wanted 
to say something, it slipped away beyond reach in two days.  I'm into 
Philosophy too.  Play, Games, Education, General Systems Theory, 
Learning Environment, Vygotsky and I'm definitely into Vygotsky through 
Mike Cole, this list, and Yrjo Engestrom.
So, back to play and "Play" and academics.  Well, you know, "The Play's 
the thing...!" via Hamlet, so it is no accident a play on the stage, a 
simulation, an enactment, a game board, a stage, a "theatre", a scaffold 
are all about "representation"then  to imitation and then parody.  I can 
do an academic paper on the topic of parody using a fox and a cockrel, 
which would connect to literature, philosphy, history, and cognitive 
framing. There are big in literature, philosophy, archetypes, levels of 
consciousness that comparatists work with.  So a few lines of keywords 
and concepts, and how much time do I have to unpack any of it?

Well, have you ever heard of "Golf in the Kingdom" a novel by Michael 
Murphy?  It is plainly an "homage" at the conceptual level, to Plato's 
Symposium, in a discussion of golf (as an example) and. ...then to 
mind.  All you ever have to do is remember that an academic Symposium 
plainly has drinking and Plato's Symposium standing solidly behind it.  
Socrates and his friends were celebrating the reception of Agathon's  
play and agreed to a discussion of Eros.  We ultimately go through 
Diotima's abstract ladder.  If we take two steps forward to our own 
time, one to science/fantasy fiction and the other to gender, we get to 
a place where we have to take on paradox and absurdity, parable and 
allegory -- and then weaving fantastic theories for academic articles to 
be published in refereed journals.

I'm  sorry that I have not said nearly enough.  My lack of linear 
development greatly impedes my academic career.  That said, we could go 
back to the Medieval philosophers discussing dialectics, a typical exam 
question for a quodlibet: "how many angels can dance on the head of a 
pin."  An angelic intelligence has to dance, on the head of a pin, or 
anywhere else, to avoid being excommunicated or burned at the stake.  
Then there is Shakespeare's Macbeth saying, "Life's but a walking 
shadow, a poor player (!) That struts and frets his hour upon the 
stage.  And then is heard no more.  It is a tale.  Told by an idiot, 
full of sound and fury, signfiying nothing."  General Systems Theory in 
cooperation with "set theory" (the name is not the thing named) trains 
one to leap from the general to the specific, one concept to another, 
one level of analysis to another.  The ground and framing provided by 
one's own discipline  set the stage or create the field, but with the 
skillful and occasional use of "abduction" new information, new models, 
new avenues appear to refresh the terrain.
Please forgive me for "just talking in metaphors" without drawing any of 
the essential lines and links to hook into your work.
Valerie

(2013/10/12 6:59), CAITLIN WUBBENA wrote:
> Thanks everyone for the positive feedback and great ideas! It's been really
> helpful for me and I think I've been more able to mentally conceptualize
> where I'm going. If this remains interesting, please continue to provide
> feedback and ideas!
>
> Greg-- Play as informal conversation is great verbiage...that gives me some
> direction. Let's say informal, intellectually adventurous conversation. So,
> I think you've hit the nail on the head...but I want to be careful to not
> describe play as in opposition to seriousness. In fact, using Plato's
> conceptualizations of play, I want to argue that the inability to play (due
> to lack of practice in childhood, I suppose) is precisely what hinders
> those strange and serious characters from engaging fully/creatively in
> academia. For example, I think of the overzealous grad student who
> bulldozes his colleagues during a debate or the uninspired post doc who is
> too hard on herself when a project isn't going completely according to
> plan. These people are successful insofar as they've arrived at a certain
> selective/impressive place (definite snaps to that)...still, I would argue
> that they would benefit from being intellectually playful/adventurous so
> they can produce serious and creative work that is responsive to their
> given context (empathy learned from play in childhood). So, a playful
> attitude, I will submit, results in serious (and higher quality!) academic
> work.
>
> How does that sound? I suppose I don't think play is in opposition to
> anything...
>
> -C.
>
>
> On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 2:08 AM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com>wrote:
>
>> Caitlin,
>>
>> I find it fascinating that you are interested in studying play in the stage
>> of ADULTHOOD. And more fascinating that you would look in the peculiar
>> adulthood stage that is filled with those strange and serious characters
>> called "academics".
>>
>> Did I get that right? Something about putting play (informal conversation?)
>> back into academia?
>>
>> If so, I say "YES"! but am not sure quite how to help...
>>
>> Or maybe, first, I should ask: what is "play" in adulthood?
>>
>> Defining by opposition, what does it oppose?
>> Work?
>> Seriousness?
>> Something else?
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> playfully,
>> greg
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 10:34 AM, CAITLIN WUBBENA <cwubbena@gse.upenn.edu
>>> wrote:
>>> Thanks for your responses. A little more about the project: it's
>> definitely
>>> rooted in a strong experiential piece (I've noticed that kids who grew up
>>> in hyper-structured environments seem to lack empathy, appropriate debate
>>> skills, etc once they get to college. Also, more kids seem to grow up in
>>> these hyper-structured environments...at least in the middle class
>>> [Lareau]. Further, this is often discussed in informal settings like TED
>>> talks [Ken Robinson, free range children]) coupled with a theoretical,
>>> academic piece.
>>>
>>> My background is in philosophy--so I'm most immediately drawn to the
>>> theorists I mentioned in my initial post. My idea with this project is to
>>> trace the history of conceptualizations of play in academia to illustrate
>>> the context of this more colloquial conversation that happens on TED
>> talks
>>> and the like. I will also include "examples" to ground the theoretical
>>> aspect...illustrations of play in Novalis' Novices of Sais and an essay
>> on
>>> play/identity formation by CD Wright, for example. Ultimately, the goal
>>> will be to bring the informal conversation (back) into academia.
>>>
>>> Long story short, I'm not quite sure where this will go yet. But I
>> suspect
>>> that the nature of the project might allow some room to incorporate a few
>>> conceptualizations of play, as long as they lead to this central idea of
>>> play as necessarily leading to productivity.
>>>
>>> As a disclaimer, I haven't had a chance to read Vygotsky yet...in fact, I
>>> just received the email that it has arrived in the library.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 5:42 PM, Greg Thompson <greg.a.thompson@gmail.com
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Caitlin,
>>>> Maybe you could say a little more about what you mean by "play"?
>>>> I suspect that you may be talking about an ontogenetically different
>>> thing
>>>> from what is at the heart of Vygotsky's work (that's not to say that
>> the
>>>> two are unrelated, simply that some elaboration is needed...).
>>>> -greg
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Oct 9, 2013 at 11:05 AM, CAITLIN WUBBENA <
>> cwubbena@gse.upenn.edu
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi! I am a graduate student at Penn working on my Master's paper in
>>>>> foundations/philosophy of education. I am taking a course with Andrew
>>>>> Babson and he recommended I post here for some feedback/advice.
>>>>>
>>>>> Loosely, my topic is centered on Plato's notion of play/seriousness.
>> I
>>>> want
>>>>> to explore why intellectual play is vital for success in higher ed
>> and
>>>>> envision this particular project (it's a relatively short lit review)
>>> as
>>>> an
>>>>> analysis of the historical context that has allowed this conversation
>>> to
>>>>> happen in academia. At this point, I plan to cite Plato, Kierkegaard
>>>>> (Socratic irony), and Dewey. I've also been introduced to Vygotsky
>> and
>>>>> Kendall Walton. The main challenge is bridging the conversation to
>>> higher
>>>>> ed.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any advice on where to go, books/articles to look into, etc would be
>>>>> greatly appreciated!
>>>>>
>>>>> -Caitlin
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>>>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>>>> Department of Anthropology
>>>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>>>> Brigham Young University
>>>> Provo, UT 84602
>>>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Gregory A. Thompson, Ph.D.
>> Visiting Assistant Professor
>> Department of Anthropology
>> 883 Spencer W. Kimball Tower
>> Brigham Young University
>> Provo, UT 84602
>> http://byu.academia.edu/GregoryThompson
>>