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[Xmca-l] Re: ISCAR experiences, reflections, etc



With Hegel's Phenomenology of Spirit, epistemology and ontology all became obsolete really. Marx's ideas on these topics have to be gleaned from occasional remarks and unpublished notes. But, taking the Theses on Feuerbach, and the key passages in the German Ideology and the Grundrisse as defining "Marx's epistemology and ontology" then I would say we are still waiting for a time when this standpoint will come into its own.

Do we have a reviewer for that book yet?

Andy

------------------------------------------------------------
Andy Blunden
http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
https://andyblunden.academia.edu/research
On 7/09/2017 1:44 AM, Antti Rajala wrote:
Andy, thanks for these thoughts and your welcoming words. I agree with your reading of the Vygotsky's essay. I think Vygotsky also said that the Marxist psychology could not be found in Marx's text but had to be created. In this he used Marx method, as you pointed out.

I am no expert of Marxism but found the discussion in the symposium interesting. The discussion was sparked by the presentations of Carl Ratner and Thomas Teo respectively. If I remember it right, Teo complemented Marx's original insights with some more postmodernist theorizing, whereas Ratner appeared to rely more on a more traditional reading of Marx.

Andy, to what extent do you think that the ontological/epistemological foundation of Marx is still valid today? (perhaps too broad a question). I am looking forward to read the hopefully forthcoming review of the edited volume by Ratner and Nunes Henrique Silva on Vygotsky and Marx in MCA.

Antti









On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 2:40 PM, Andy Blunden <ablunden@mira.net <mailto:ablunden@mira.net>> wrote:

    Antti,

    I think the development of a tradition of practice
    (such as Marxism) means continually returning to the
    original sources and *digging deeper* into them, while
    responding to the problems thrown up by the present
    world. What Vygotsky ridiculed was not just the
    re-assertion of the original sources, but their
    mindless and superficial repetition. Whenever Marxism
    has fallen into crisis, it has sparked a "return to
    Marx" - not to go back to an original truth, but to
    look again at what was being taken for granted, and
    find new sources of inspiration. Vygotsky did this in
    his reading of /Capital/ in particular.

    Andy

    (PS Nice to hear your voice on this list, Antti)

    ------------------------------------------------------------
    Andy Blunden
    http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm
    <http://www.ethicalpolitics.org/ablunden/index.htm>
    https://andyblunden.academia.edu/research
    <https://andyblunden.academia.edu/research>

    On 6/09/2017 3:29 PM, Antti Rajala wrote:

        Hi,
        In ISTP (Theory & Psychology) conference in Tokyo
        a couple of weeks ago
        there was a session on Vygotsky and Marxism, in
        which a similar issue was
        raised: whether the Marxist research should be
        continually updated as a
        living tradition or be more original to the
        sources. Wasn't it Vygotsky
        himself who emphasized the former position in his
        essay on the Crisis of
        Psychology when he mocked people who were just
        picking citations from Marx
        book and pretending that's Marxist psychology.

        On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 1:44 AM, Rod Parker-Rees <
        R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk
        <mailto:R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk>> wrote:

            Hi Alfredo,

            Yes, my feeling is that it is better if
            different people are able to
            pursue different paths so they are able to
            develop (and hopefully share)
            different perspectives. One of the things we
            take away from a conference
            (as, in different ways, from other forms of
            interaction) is a richer sense
            of the ways in which other people see things
            differently. Knowing a bit
            about how others see things helps to enrich
            the possibilities available to
            us - so we become more than just our own selves.

            All the best,

            Rod


            -----Original Message-----
            From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
            <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
            [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
            mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>] On
            Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil
            Sent: 05 September 2017 21:59
            To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
            <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
            <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
            Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: ISCAR experiences,
            reflections, etc

            I think I got this e-mail back from the
            server, here I try again.
            ________________________________________
            From: Alfredo Jornet Gil
            Sent: 05 September 2017 19:07
            To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
            Subject: Re: ISCAR experiences, reflections, etc

            Jaakko, yes, I agree with you those in between
            sessions, and the after
            sessions too, are part of the best these type
            of congress offers. I am
            happy I could enjoy some of that with you in
            Quebec! It was a real pleasure.

            Rod, yes, it would have been so great meeting
            you too.  In any case,
            concerning perezhivanie and other notions, I
            am glad thta you bring this
            distinction between those who seek to defend
            some 'core, true meaning', and
            those who attempt to bring those notions into
            new uses etc. This seems to
            be at the heart of the field today, and
            definitely resonates with
            discussions having gone on here. I don't
            think, (nor probably do you) that
            in most cases the dichotomy is that
            straightforward; rather, there seems to
            be a tension between one's efforts to build on
            a given body of scholar work
            in a coherent manner, and one's goals of
            addressing real, contemporary
            problems. I feel that here at xmca we tend to
            be very strong on the former
            effort, but could be better in the latter.
            Just my sense. Cheers, Alfredo
            ________________________________________
            From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
            <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
            <xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
            <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
            on behalf of Rod Parker-Rees
            <R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk
            <mailto:R.Parker-Rees@plymouth.ac.uk>>
            Sent: 05 September 2017 11:17
            To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
            Subject: [Xmca-l] Re: ISCAR experiences,
            reflections, etc

            Dear Alfredo,

            I am sorry I did not get the opportunity to
            meet you at ISCAR.

            The highlight of the conference for me was the
            opportunity to explore a
            wide range of different perspectives on key
            aspects of cultural-historical
            research. The first meeting of the round-table
            discussion group focusing on
            perezhivanie was well attended and somewhat
            chaotic, as a lot of people set
            out their own understanding of the
            significance of this concept. Here there
            was only time for an initial presentation of
            positions - and the beginnings
            of exploration of disagreements but the topic
            was also addressed in many
            paper presentations and the second and third
            round-table meetings were
            smaller, allowing more extensive discussion,
            which I thought was
            particularly valuable in clarifying why
            perezhivanie is such a useful (and
            flexible) concept.

            Discussions at the conference illustrated the
            tensions between those who
            seek to defend a core, 'true' meaning (through
            careful historical analysis
            of documents and arguments) and those who want
            to loosen the boundaries of
            what 'counts' as perezhivanie so that the
            concept can be used in new ways
            and in new contexts. Having the opportunity to
            take conversations forward
            beyond initial disagreement helped me to see
            the 'agreed' meaning
            (znachenie) of perezhivanie as a fluid,
            dynamic product of continuing
            interactions - both influencing and influenced
            by the particular
            refractions of individual interpretations
            (smysl). Our 'own' understanding
            is immeasurably enriched by opportunities to
            encounter and engage with
            other people's perspectives - not just what
            they think and know but also
            what they care about! My understanding of the
            writing of Fernando Gonzalez
            Rey, Anna Stetsenko, Barbara Rogoff, Nikolai
            Veresov and many others will
            be informed by what I have learned from seeing
            how they present their own
            understandings but also, in different but
            equally important ways, from
            seeing how they engage with other people and
            with other people's ideas.

            All the best,

            Rod




            -----Original Message-----
            From: xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu
            <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@mailman.ucsd.edu>
            [mailto:xmca-l-bounces@ <mailto:xmca-l-bounces@>
            mailman.ucsd.edu <http://mailman.ucsd.edu>] On
            Behalf Of Alfredo Jornet Gil
            Sent: 02 September 2017 19:36
            To: eXtended Mind, Culture, Activity
            <xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu
            <mailto:xmca-l@mailman.ucsd.edu>>
            Subject: [Xmca-l] ISCAR experiences,
            reflections, etc

            Dear all,


            I am still at Tampere, where the EARLI
            conference finished today, just one
            day after ISCAR ended. Unfortunately, I
            committed to attending both
            conferences and could only be the first days
            in Quebec. Still, I was
            fortunate enough to catch up with many
            colleagues, to share some of my
            work, and get to hear about that of many
            others that are doing great things
            around the globe.


            One (not so) surprising discovery I made was
            the huge amount of people
            that actually lurks into this list, but who
            nonetheless very seldom if ever
            write (whether for lack of time to delve into
            the sometimes quite long
            posts/themes, or simply because they prefer to
            read than write). We all
            knew and had talked about this, but it was
            quite remarkable the amount of
            people I met (not only in ISCAR, but also here
            in Europe (EARLI).


            So, now that I have met some of you, and that
            you have got to see and hear
            more of ISCAR than those of us who had to
            leave earlier or could not join
            at all. What was your highlight of the
            congress and why? It would be lovely
            if some of you would take a step forward and
            tell us a bit of what you
            found most interesting, what you found was
            missing, what you found should
            have not been.


            In can be the first: One of my favourite
            moments was listening to Fernando
            G. Rey present without slides or any other
            device, passionately talking
            about child development and claiming, "... for
            the first need of the child
            is that of contact with other people"... I
            also very much enjoyed seeing
            Mike in a several meters wide screen
            commenting on Engeström's Keynote,
            rising the longest ovation I got to hear
            during my brief three days in
            Quebec.


            These are just anecdotes, but I would love if
            you could tell us more on
            how it went for you, what you found there, for
            us who could not be there. I
            think it would be very much appreciated by
            many, while we get the time to
            have a look at the issue on unit analysis, and
            prepare the discussion on
            the article from the last (third) MCA issue.


            Alfredo
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            necessarily secure. While we take every care,
            Plymouth University accepts
            no responsibility for viruses and it is your
            responsibility to scan emails
            and their attachments. Plymouth University
            does not accept responsibility
            for any changes made after it was sent.
            Nothing in this email or its
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